My last thread on UFO's

Discussion in 'Free Thoughts' started by Trapped, Jan 3, 2014.

  1. Trapped Banned Banned

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    Oh God no, you're absolutely correct, that would be far too uncommon for what this thread has been made worth.
     
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  3. Kittamaru Never cruel nor cowardly... Staff Member

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    *shrugs* I know, I know... it's a silly thread about a silly topic... someone call the ministry of silly walks.
     
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  5. Trapped Banned Banned

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    Now you're talking semantics.
     
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  7. Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

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    Complete nonsense and you know it.
     
  8. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    We don't - just as you don't know they ARE alien spaceships. The odds are just very, very low.

    The tooth fairy might exist. So might Santa Claus. The Vikings may be right, and Ragnorok (the end of the world) may occur on Feb 22 of this year. Ghosts may haunt the places where they died. Alien spaceships may hover over the US. All those things might be true - but they are all quite unlikely.
     
  9. Trapped Banned Banned

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    It's true.

    The universe is too large for there to be no other life. If you think scientists don't think life is elsewhere, then you don't know a thing about the subject.
     
  10. Trapped Banned Banned

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    In whose world?
     
  11. Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

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    That isn't equivalent to what you said in what I quoted. This is just a demonstration of the 5 D's of crackpottery and dodgeball.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2014
  12. Grumpy Curmudgeon of Lucidity Valued Senior Member

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    Kittamaru

    I was making a point. Koalas exist(as Aliens are likely to do). And it is many orders of magnitude more likely that those Koalas could build and fly bamboo fighter planes over Trapped's house than that ANY aliens are cruising around on Earth. Put a little thought into it and you too will get my point. The Koala Air Force is much, much closer to a certainty when compared to an Alien invasion(or even visit). That is not promoting the acceptance of the reality of the KAF, it is pointing out the near impossibility of any alien ever stepping onto Earth.

    Koalas exist, Aliens probably do, too.

    It is possible to construct aircraft from bamboo, the Chinese did it centuries ago. It is also possible to construct a craft to travel through space, but it will never be faster than light, so we come to...

    The distance the Koalas would have to travel is insignificant(almost non-existent)when compared to the distance of even the closest star(a fraction of a light second vs. 4.3 light years), the time necessary for Captain Koala to travel the necessary distance to Trapped's house on his mission would be much less than the life expectancy of your average Koala(even if he had to carry it in a row boat and then on his back to the top of the hill behind Trapped's house). The Alien who left his home world to get to Trapped's house would never reach the end of the journey, even if the life expectancy of the aliens was measured in four or five figures. His great, great, great...grandkids would get the pleasure of buzzing Trapped, so why bother?

    The only reason for any civilization to attempt to leave their own solar system is if they will be destroyed if they don't. It will take the resources and scientific ability to move whole worlds, it will only save a very few and it will be a one way, generations long, journey that will be obvious to all outside observers(the energies to boost even the smallest spacecraft to near light speed cannot be hidden, it's spectrum would indicate it's speed and you could not sneak up on any solar system. When you see an object glowing in the ultraviolet you will know they are on the way). It will take nearly complete control of magnetic fields orders of magnitude greater than those of our sun, complete control of fusion power, the resources of whole worlds worth of water and chemicals and a population of life in the spacecraft sufficient to prevent the deterioration of all the different genomes(still only a fraction of a solar system wide advanced civilization). An interstellar spacecraft will be about the size and weight of Earth(or at least a moon. Moving that mass would be a spectacular fireworks zooming through the neighborhood and could probably be seen almost anywhere in our Galaxy(unless the core was between us and them, but then they wouldn't be coming here anyway). We do not yet have any such object in view. Even if they were using magnetic propulsion, such an anomaly would be detectable to us now by the same means we use to detect magnetars.

    For these and other reasons, it is much more rational to assume non-evidenced Koala fighter planes than it is to assume alien spacecraft as an explanation of a UFO. Of course neither assumption is really being rational, is it?

    Grumpy

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  13. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    In yours. You are using a method of argument I call Occam's Glue - a method whereby if something very unlikely MIGHT be an explanation for something, and you see that something a lot, then it must be the explanation for it. This method is often used to argue for the existence of alien spaceships, ghosts, Bigfoot, the Loch Ness monster etc.
     
  14. Kittamaru Never cruel nor cowardly... Staff Member

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    I would disagree with that Grumpy... after all, there was a time when we thought rapid travel between continents across the ocean was an impossibility... there was a time when we thought the Earth was flat as well. What's to say that in 25, 50, 100 years time that interstellar "distance" can be crossed with the same ease as crossing the atlantic?
     
  15. Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

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    No there wasn't - at least never among the scientifically minded. Those are common/popular crackpot myths.
     
  16. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    "Gigantic flying machines speeding across the Atlantic carrying innumerable passengers in a way analogous to our modern steam ships…such ideas are wholly visionary.” — William Henry Pickering, Harvard astronomer, 1910.
    “Rail travel at high speed is not possible, because passengers, unable to breathe, would die of asphyxia” - Dr. Larder, Professor of natural Philosophy & Astronomy, University of London College
    "Man will not fly for 50 years." - Wilbur Wright, 1901
    "Airplanes are interesting toys but of no military value." - Marechal Ferdinand Foch, Professor of Strategy, Ecole Superieure de Guerre, 1904
    Rocket launched warheads are "too far-fetched to be considered." -Editor of Scientific American, 1940
    "It is apparent to me that the possibilities of the aeroplane, which two or three years ago were thought to hold the solution to the [flying machine] problem, have been exhausted, and that we must turn elsewhere." - Thomas Edison, American inventor, 1895.

    Last week I flew back from New Zealand. I got on an airplane, we took off, I fell asleep - and woke up just before we landed in Los Angeles.

    While these people may have been wrong, they were certainly not crackpots.
     
  17. Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

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    Most of those are not on point, were true when they were stated, or are too vague to have much value, but:
    A google (not sure where you got the quote) will tell you that Wilbur said this after a particularly bad day. Lots of people say things they don't really mean after particularly bad days. Obviously, if he had truly thought it impossible he wouldn't have been doing it.

    In any case:
    That's not what I was saying. I'm saying it is modern crackpots who erroneously point to those myths.
     
  18. Grumpy Curmudgeon of Lucidity Valued Senior Member

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    Kittamaru

    Physics. Flying like the birds was only a question of technology, we knew it was physically possible. Travelling like Star Trek breaks every law we know about the Universe. It was only a question of our technology that limited our ability to fly, it is the limits of reality that forbid easy or quick travel between stars regardless of our technical achievements. If the matter in the beam of a Quasar does not ever reach lightspeed, we never will either.

    Grumpy

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  19. Trapped Banned Banned

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    There are only certain levels of stupid I can deal with. If you seriously think... for a moment that I take fairies seriously, I think you'd just be best not talking with me. In no one's world, are faries, the boogey man... santa clause real.

    I shouldn't need to explain the glaringly different reasons for thinking that UFO's exist... other than been observed by people, the suggestion they are alien are nothing like supporting a fantasy like the tooth fairy. They no more exist in my world than hopefully, they exist in yours and you are stupid to suggest there is an analogy between the two.
     
  20. Trapped Banned Banned

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    It really is the most pathetic stupid argument the skeptic can use... and I won't hold back. My vision of grumpy has always been the same, so I wasn't surprised when he used similar arguments... but Billvon.... I mean seriously, my opinion of you has just drastically changed. If skeptics are incapable of making intelligent conversation, again, why should they be listened to, especially when they make arguments for the tooth fairy as opposed to the real phenomenon of UFO's.
     
  21. Grumpy Curmudgeon of Lucidity Valued Senior Member

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    Trapped

    Evidently not, you think alien spacecraft are real. They are not. In fact fairies are much more likely to be real. They didn't have to travel light years to get here.

    Grumpy

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  22. Trapped Banned Banned

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    You're so confident, yet the reality is your just some shmuck who hates the fact he's never seen a real unexplainable UFO event. If you had, you would probably show a bit more understanding of your ego crap that I daily have to read. You have no evidence whatsoever, that alien life is not visiting us, nor do you have any evidence there are no alien spacecraft period, in the universe.

    I on the other, have plenty evidence the tooth fairy doesn't exist.

    Your mistake is you assume there is no evidence for UFO's or for there being any evidence to support the ET hypothesis. Actually, not only have previously hired government scientists came to this conclusion, there have been continued efforts to hide this ever since then. You are just part of the problem and the reason why still a lot of the public are being duped by UFO technology actually existing or that it has been an ongoing serious situation since the early 1900's and possibly even before then.

    You're arguments and devoid, pitiful and not even worth listening to.
     
  23. Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

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    Ehem: perhaps that's because he has an understanding of the night sky that you don't? You've demonstrated with a number of your claimed "good" sightings not having even the most basic idea of what you are seeing in the night sky. To some people - like you - anything they see in the night sky that they don't see on a daily basis is automatically believed to be aliens or some other nonsense event.

    Heck, every year, people are wowed by the apparently huge moons they see in the spring and fall, not remembering they saw the same thing last year! (the normal event: different rise times and trajectories).
    Sigh. Eventually you're going to want to try to learn the scientific method if you ever want to be taken seriously. But I'm definitely liking billvon's "Occam's glue" logical device as an explanation for your pathology.
    Both of those are of course nonsense. The first being a logical impossibility (but by all means lets hear it). The second is of course just your continued misuse of the word you are supposed to be an expert on. No one here denies that UFOs exist. No one denies that there is evidence they exist (assumes they don't).
    Well, what you see is evidence that they must exist tends to just be evidence that doesn't rule them out... in the best cases...in the worst cases, it is just you assuming alien spacecraft in place of a mundane event.
    And when the "truth" can't be proven, assume it is because it is being suppressed! Classic.
    Um... "devoid" is an adjective. Devoid of what? Devoid of sufficient crackpottery? Sure.

    P.S. If you don't want people to continue believing you are just a bratty kid (even a 60 year old bratty kid), you should probably learn how to use the word "your".
     

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