My first out of body experience

Yes I do. I don't know how but if I had to guess I'd say its through a form of energy. And I have detected that energy. Its manifested in a variety of ways that I have been able to observe.

 

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you don't know that. as a matter of fact, there is a lot of evidence to the contrary that you blatantly and arbitrarily dismiss, citing reasons as profound and insightful as lying and delusion and insanity.

you know as well as i do that no scientist that takes his work seriously, or has any appreciation for his work would ever say what you just said here. it would be contrary to everything he stands for.

my point is that there's this force that we observe and are affected by every minute of every day, and we don't know what causes it. we can't explain it's cause or where it comes from, we only observe it's effect. that is no different scenario than what i'm proposing of the spiritual realm.

 

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actually while sleeping a person is not conscious.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consciousness

this can explain the sensation of the separation you feel. night tremor\terror and sleep paralysis are very related and then once you inject a dream state things get pretty intense. If a person has the sensation of paralysis then perhaps they would feel as though since they cannot physically move then they can do so by OBE.

 

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No, even if touching part of the brain produces the experience, that's not proof that it's a delusion.

No example needed to make my point there.

Just like all knowledge is belief.

Yep.

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all you want, you're not showing anything except your ignorance.

 

And your proof of that? Let me guess, absence of evidence?

 

Since it can be induced in the brain then it's a delusion.

Ah, we just take your word for it.
Righto.

Nope.

Again, no.
What evidence of "other realities" do we have?

 

Those docs know everything eh? Perfect all-encompassing knowledge they have.

You missed out, big time. Hopefully you'll get the opportunity again. I too resisted it for many years; too scared.

 

Nope, that's merely an assumption.

You need not. Just don't claim what you can't prove.

Yep. All knowledge is belief when it comes down to it.

No evidence is needed. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absense.

 

dy, everything we experience can be induced in the brain. i mean, you can poke my brain and make me smell cherries even when there are no cherries under my nose, but that doesn't mean cherries don't exist. right?

 

Wrong again. If it's purely internal then it isn't "real" i.e. related to phenomena in the "real" world.

You were the one that made the claim. And your word means nothing.

I suggest you check the meanings of the two words.

Oops. Agreed absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, but neither is unsupported speculation in the face of lack of evidence evidence for a phenomenon.

You're confusing two separate phenomena: it can be shown that cherries have an existence other purely in the brain.

 

not without a brain you can't. it's like if a bear takes a shit in the woods and there's nobody there to smell it.

besides, we're continually discovering the existence of new things that we had no idea about before...like black holes, and 7 ft tubeworms.

 

"Purely internal" is merely an assumption on your part. Also an alternate reality need not be related to phenomena in the "real" world, the one we're experiencing now.

Yes, I can't prove it, I can't show an example. But that doesn't prove it's not real, i.e. an alternate reality.

I did. They're synonymous when it comes down to it.

It's not speculative for those of us who've experienced OBEs. The OPer isn't claiming to prove anything.

 

That's right. It's all inputs and outputs, using the brain. Like, we input the observations of a cherry into our brain, and it outputs "cherry".

 

Re-read what I wrote.
And think this time.

Ah, so you'd rather assume all the extra, unprovable stuff?

If we're going to sense it in any way at all it has to be related to the real world.

So you're just waffling again.

Fail. They are not synonymous.

It's not the speculation that's the problem: it's the fact that it's unsupported speculation.

 

What she wrote made sense. How do you propose to prove that cherries have an existence other than purely in our brain?

When you've had an OBE, you won't call it a delusion. You won't need proof in this reality.

That relationship exists in the minds of those who've had OBEs. We've retained the memory of the experience in this reality.

About what?

They are. What is the difference between belief and knowledge in your book? How can you tell the difference?

It's not unsupported. We have the testimonies of thousands of people. You just expect support of a different type.

 

You seem to have missed an entire school of thought/ philosophy...

Why is it that every delusional crank automatically assumes than everyone who has the experience they did will also come to absolutely the same conclusions? Lori has already been told that is an incorrect assumption with regard to other "paranormal" phenomena.

No, you've retained the memory of the illusion of reality.

You used a claim you can't substantiate to validate another claim you can't substantiate. Way to go.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistemology
Knowledge is independently verifiable. Belief isn't.

Ah, eye witness accounts. One the most unreliable methods of "support" in history. Testimony and anecdote.

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And, the believers are here to tell us they DO in fact know there are other realms.

Believers incoherent, out-of-touch-with-reality ramblings, for example?

I love it when believers talk about science, it's so cute. Awww...

Lying for Jesus, again.

 

Well, we could go on about giant lizards sneezing the universe out its nostrils or flying pink dragons or invisible unicorns and such, but if you want to talk about those so-called other realms, please feel free to enlighten us.

Incoherent ramblings from ignorant believers are all there is for evidence of those realms.

 

that it provides a logical explanation for what they've experienced.

see?

it's extra cute when i'm right.

i was talking about gravity silly.

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So does insanity, which is far more logical, since there is no evidence for those realms but plenty of evidence for religious insanity.