Minimum Wage

Your obsession with "the ladder" and a "pyramid" is based in myths and artifacts of ego, or materialism.

The fact is that organization have leaders, blah blah blah. When people group up to perform some task (like run a business or church or whatever), a "pyramid" is formed to keep the organization... well, organized. This is just a fact of life, that when groups form, leaders emerge, etc.

Those who lust for power or whatever will necessarily seek out those leadership positions, blah blah whatever.

The leaders are generally provided some sort of economic reward so to speak such that they are compelled in numerous ways to whatever on behalf of the organization, and such that they recognize the "gratitude" of the organization for their efforts. Blah blah whatever.

The issue is though, that any person can play a part on any number of pyramids, each with its own set of circumstances.

The illusion is: None of them are real except in the minds of those involved. The pyramid is wholly dependent on the participants.

Most people seem to tend to buy the illusion as reality because the consequences of the actions of the people involved are real. They are so real to most that some of them start thinking that their notch on the ladder reflects some form of absolute superiority over those who haven't climbed as high on the ladder that matters to them. This is a simple psychological trick that people use to justify their actions - to relieve them from their conscience. Whatever they have to tell themselves to maintain their sense of identity. It could be for instance, that the economic rewards for their place in the ladder instills a sense of urgency in their psyche that demands them to act against their conscience - creating cognitave dissonance which rationalizations like "i'm better than them" can stave off so long as they remain unexplored.

In reality, there are people, being people. Each person has a dynamic set of skills and some talent their are prone to. They will generally exceed each other on a variety of tasks. I'm better at guitar, you're better at chess, blah blah that kind of thing. Whatever, it's just a bunch of individuals living out their circumstance and reacting in whatever way. The pyramid only exists in their minds, but is put there as a consequence of reality. Blah blah. Organizations blah blah as above, and circumstance blah blah. When people get together to do something of purpose, some form of heirarchy emerges as the talents/skills emerge in the perceptions of the individuals involved.

Indeed, it's perfectly natural.

 

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... and inevitable.

 

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Please Sir, I want to be CEO of Ford. Please Sir, let me play a part on the top of the Ford pyramid.

 

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So from "any number of pyramids" you presume that "any pyramid" is what was intended to be said, or somehow find that since only one person can be the CEO of ford - and it's not these guys, that's somehow dissapointing to you?

 

If the above is incorrect, please expose its fundamental logical flaw for the spoonfed sham that it is. Please help me to understand how it's not inevitable.

 

Admit your defeat you cowards.

 

Me being born in December is not on the list?

What was the first, organizations or leaders? That's not a rhetorical question.

Look at the natural order of things in a monkey group. A dominant male can fuck any female he wants, kick shit out of any subservient male, take the most lavish bamboo sprout patch for himself. That's all privileges of the monkey rank. Spread your genes and stuff your barrel FIRST. Monkey dominant male DON'T make others to work for himself, don't call for higher powers to justify his privilege, don't demand veneration of his position, don't do everything possible to reserve the top position for his favorite son. Big hairy fists and chest, is all that's needed.

Millions years ago, silent disconent could have been brewing in a monkey troop. Smart ass monkey, lacking big hairy fists and chest, thought, "I want to fuck that voluptuous bitch first, I want to get that patch of bamboo sprouts for myself. I don't have big fists, what to do?" A grand idea came to smart monkey's mind, "What if I'll offer 1/10th of the bamboo sprouts to those 3 fairly strong monkeys, sneaking upon strayed females in the distant bushes. Can I topple that burly mature monkey chieftain that way?" Sure, he could. New monkey pyramide was born. That was a dawn of "civilization" as we know it.

The second gigantic "leap" for humanity came after another bright thought came to the proto human's mind, "Can I "bribe" a few strong bullies with 1/10th of the yield, so we could make the rest of a tribe to collect bamboo sprouts for us?". Sure, the second leap was an absolute success too.

The third gigantic "leap" for humanity came after a dominant monkey or protohumans gave birth to a thought, "Yeah, I can fuck any female I want, my progeny is numerous. However, if I could find a way to "reserve" dominant positions for my and only my progeny, that would be an additional safeguard in the game of life."

Don't paint leaders with too broad a brush. "Leader" in English has a quite certain civilization specific connotation, which other languages lack (i.e. it's impossible to find an adequate equivalent). That's why leader became an international word.

There were/are? leaders chosen to fulfill common will. There are leaders manipulating/creating common will to achieve whatever is on their mind. There are leaders who are bluntly forcing their will upon others. there are all kinds of leaders.

However, little has principally changed in the human power pyramid since monkey times. Passive, isolated majority, scared of anything endangering its "bird in the hand", enforcers subclass bribed with 1/10th of bamboo sprouts, and master class, getting most of the loot. The only change since monkey times - power pyramide has got the life of its own. In other words, it's not only an assembly of humanoids creates a pyramid. The pyramid shapes humanoids also. It's symbiotic coexistence. Pyramid reprlicates itself. Humanoids are becoming less and less relevant in the pyramid scheme of things.

 

That was stupendously profound. could you put the above in the folk English, if it's even possible.

In reality, generally speaking, your place on the wealth/power pyramid dictates whether or not you'll be able/have time to develop those sets of skills and talants. In the reality, you'll try to develop skills that, hopefully, will bring cold hard cash at some point. I reality, being homeless, working 3 low wage jobs nose to nose, or staring into TV screen for few hours after another day of a typical middle class degradation are not conducive to developing of those talents. Gee, most will never find out where those talants are.

Pyramid exists in the wild. It's as real as sun rise.

Hierarchy we have today is built not on some abstract talents and skills, it's built upon ONE skill and ONE talant "putting others to work for yourself". There is no other way to get to the top. Work horses can reach just that much, and not a perch more.

Besides, as I said, hierarchy is to a great degree hereditary.

Naturality is in the eyes of beholder. How could you say something is "natural", if that "something" could be found in the human world only?

 

These guys can never be CEO of Ford.

That's reality to them.

 

Is that supposed to be some sort of shocking, unnacceptable revelation?

I could never be president of malaysia.

I might as well not live.

*cry*

 

DM,

It's my opinion that only a faith-based commitment to idealism separates people from the natural world - as if.

Please explain how people are not simply complicated apes, with an exceeding capacity for the abstract (which makes up the complicated part).

 

Why not?
Maybe you underestimate them?
There's certainly no law, physical or legislative, that would prevent them (only one at a time, of course) from becoming CEO of Ford.
Or is there?

 

No, I actually know that the second guy on the right will be a better CEO than the current one of Ford. So I do not underestimate them. He will never be one CEO of anything though.

 

Ah, so you insist your opinion of what constitutes "better" in terms of a CEO is more relevant to ford than that of the people who choose CEOs for ford? If so, why don't you become one of them? Otherwise, your complaints are pretty empty, no?

You seriously have no reasonable leg to stand on. You're just on an emotional tyrade, as usual regarding anything to do with capitalism or america.

What pisses me off more than anything about you in particular is that you're smart enough to realize that "hating americans" and similar bullshit is akin to "hating niggers" or "hating the dutch". Of course that's you're option, but I'd think a "used to be fun" guy like yourself would get over himself and chill the fuck out.

Taking yourself so seriously as to "hate america" or "hate americans" is the kind of thing that motivates wars, which you insist are wrong, no? *sigh*

Stop hating, you asshole - and let the suave, cool monkey rule your brain would you?

 

Is that you argument? That I hate americans?

What about addressing the issues?

That YOU need thousands of poor guys in teh third world to maintain your privileged status.

Why do you always skip this fact? Does it make you uneasy? Or do you keep deluding yourself that everybody has a fair chance.

That's what the whole discussion was about, but you rather make up things. That I hate americans.

We both know what you are doing here.

 

We both know you're a hateful git, dass fo sho. I read your posts in another thread. You hate americans. Apparently you don't know what YOU are doing here.

How is it that you consider my "status", "privelaged"?

Do you think I could be CEO of ford?

Do you think it bothers me that I probably couldn't no matter what I did?

I have circumstances that I deal with, like every other human.

I make choices to try to find and maintain a circumstance in which I'm fairly comfortable.

LOL. Funny that after the thousands of words I've posted here you pick "you hate americans" (which is true) as "my argument". It's an observation, asshole.

"A poor guy from a different company will never be CEO of ford". Wow. Impressive. 1 of 6 billion people are CEO of ford. Powerful argument.

Everyone should get their turn? Is that your "argument"?

If so, please explain how you find that remotely rational.

 

So you skip the issue again to repeat nonsense?

true or false?

 

So you skip the issue again to repeat nonsense?

Yes or no?

 

Pussy.