Mathematical Proof that God Exists?

Pi is a beautiful number... approx. 3.14159265358979.... therefore, God exists!!!

1%... I do not know.

 

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Some God Lovers have said that, God must have made the fundamental forces because nothing would exist if those forces were too strong or too weak.

Any God formula must include rational to rationalize polytheism positions as well as monotheism positions to be valid if it promotes theism. Failure to do so and it is invalid.

GodLied.

 

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Well, view it this way. God to me is an infinite box full of unknowns. I know that he created the universe and me and that's I'm accountable to him in this life and the afterlife, but I don't know the content of his box and I'm convinced that nomatter how learned do I become that I'll remain ignorant about his contents.

I agree, but some muslims with good intentions dwell too much in connecting science and the Quran and they go to extremes, like trying to proof that certain numbers in the Quran have actual scientific relevance, ect....When they do that with their good intentions, they are unknowingly subjecting the perfect Quran to error because they interpreted it based on today's knowledge which might be wrong and outdated twenty years from now. What the muslims are left with is weak credibility for what they thought the Quran meant was wrong and thus either they are wrong or the Quran is wrong and outsiders as you have noticed prefer to assume that Khomeini is right and the Quran is wrong.

Of course science is being manipulated, it's manipulated everytime it's used by scientists so how do you think the religious people who have no knowledge of science are doing. Let me explain this to you. Historically, if you noticed, the arabs used to be very advanced in medecine, science, math, ect....Science used to be much simpler than today and one person can truly call himself a scientist because he is well rounded in knowledge and that person taught in mosques which were really regular schools thousands of years ago. As time went by, science became more complicated, many deciplines emerged, and it became impossible to be learned in everything, so we started to specialize, and studying religion became a speciality separate from science and math, ect....Our teachers in the mosque started studying religion as a separate subject and over time the separation from science was evidant....All of a sudden, our teachers are coming back to science, but it's too late, they are in the business of confirming their belief and the Quran now and not truly in advancing science, so they are lying to themselves and hurting both the religion and the science....That's how damage is done.

Intentions are good and all but they shouldn't be linked to emotions, and god loves those who reflect and understand. He says so all over the Quran. I don't think god love those who are dumb and act dumb with good intentions. The Sheikh in the mosque who has accepted the responsbility of moving masses and talking to masses on Friday while he knows inside of him that he knows shit about science or any other thing and that he is really an ignorant baboon who studied the Quran inside a little room by nodding back and forth can't have good intentions, he's merely enjoying the power and the status.

 

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Flores

Well, view it this way. God to me is an infinite box full of unknowns. I know that he created the universe and me and that's I'm accountable to him in this life and the afterlife

Contradictions are a box a chocolates.

Of course science is being manipulated, it's manipulated everytime it's used by scientists so how do you think the religious people who have no knowledge of science are doing.

Ignorance is bliss, isn’t it Flores?

All of a sudden, our teachers are coming back to science, but it's too late, they are in the business of confirming their belief and the Quran now and not truly in advancing science, so they are lying to themselves and hurting both the religion and the science....That's how damage is done.

This is too funny.

I think Flores and Allahs/Jihad/Ghassan make a perfect couple.

 

I'm not sure but I think the 1% is saying that wouldn't the circumference percentage be a decimal rather than a whole number if the universe wasn't designed in a certain way out of randomness. But I'm not sure...

 

Flores,

Really? Is that what it says in the Qua'ran?

How do you know until you try? Judging by your grammar and spelling and such, you aren't very intelligent, so it's not like you've given learning a chance yet! Why not try it?

Oh boy, people using scientific method on your religious texts! The lie is over! AHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Since when is the Qua'ran perfect? Do you have any proof? Nope! Didn't think so! And of course, you, in your infinite wisdom, have a great grasp on "today's knowledge," at least enough to claim that it could ALL be wrong or outdated...man alive....

You mean NO credibility, right? There isn't one shred of objective evidence stating the Qua'ran is correct or legitimate.

See, here is where you show your true colors, and completely fit in with every other religious zealot. You liken those who don't believe to a scumbag like the Khomeini, when in fact, sharing a non-belief in the uttlerly rediculous with a total ass like he is doesn't make us in any way associated with him. You can drop that scare tactic right now.

And why the hell WOULD we believe the Qua'ran is right? No evidence, and whenever your Muslim brothers put it to the test, they fail miserably and are left either with their faith shaken or outright lies. Even THEY have trouble believing after that, and they were subject to years of brainwashing as a child! What makes you think I, a rational and reasonabley thinking man would buy that utter nonsense? The fact that YOU believe shows me you have the intelligence of a 9 year old, and the fact that you REFUSE to even THINK about examining the validity of your religious texts proves that the brainwashing was 100% sucessful and effective! Stay ignorant, don't learn, don't question. That's the religious creedo.

Ok, what do you base this on? What level of education in any form of science do you have? What makes you think science can be manipulated, or is manipulated by scientist? Only the story put alongside the facts can be manipulated, and that is only done by theist wack-jobs trying to prove God (And failing)

Oh god...here we go...

Ok, in all actuality, the arabs weren't the only ones. Your Muslim people borrowed science and math from the Indians, Greeks and Egyptians and improved upon them. In some cases, Muslims became the greatest names in their field, like Al-Tusi, the father of trigonometry. Granted, Trig was invented by the Greeks, but through the use of astronomy, the Muslims improved it.

That is the biggest pile of B.S. I've ever read. That statement is just a flat-out lie, and another yard-marker in your sprawling field of ignorance. The reason the arab world isn't ahead in the field of science anymore is becuase the dogmas of their religion have suffocated anyone's chances for studying the field. How is science on your mind when your teachers tell you that the West is science and it is evil?

Ok, another untruth. You have this notion of a time when the scope of science was studied by a single individual. This is crap. Science has ALWAYS had these seperate "Disciplines" as you call them, or seperate fields. Always. It was only after time that people started realizing the connection between some of them, not the other way around. I mean, where the hell do you get this information from?

Crap. Science and religion were never one in the same. There is no way to teach a "holy science" because the facts of the world go against creationism.

They are hardly hurting science, sister. See, this is more of the scare tactics in place, as you're saying the men and women who seek to validate their religious teachings aren't contributing the advancement of science, when the opposite is true. The more people you interest in studying the sciences, and putting them to use every day, the better the field is. The only thing put in danger by all of this is your religion, and that, my friend, is the only thing you're really afraid of. Because once religion is called into question, the examination begins and those things that were so deeply rooted in your subconcious are found to be false, and your whole world of ignorance and fear are turned upside down.

But fear not, because a world in which you aren't held down by some god is one where science can prosper and advance, just like you said you wanted.

More nonsense. I can't even decipher that paragraph of run-on sentances.

JD

 

Yeah, Flores, beat those curious kufirs to the ground! No one must question anything! Thought crime!

Allahu Ackbar! Lets no infidel thoughts stand!

 

Flores,
You do realize that your education (which for some reason you always bring up on topics that have nothing to do with your studies) was originally attacked by religion. The initial reason for geological/climatical changes was 'God did it'. It says so in virtually every religious document. You want people to not ask questions about God (aka: unknowns), yet your often mentioned phd is due to the work of your ancestors who ask questions.

Contradict much?

 

Q

You really cannot stop making a fool out of yourself can you ?
You picked really the best subject ever ......

Flores

Well, view it this way. God to me is an infinite box full of unknowns. I know that he created the universe and me and that's I'm accountable to him in this life and the afterlife, but I don't know the content of his box and I'm convinced that nomatter how learned do I become that I'll remain ignorant about his contents.

Ok , but then in how far would you describe a specific knowledge you are studying as "trying to learn about" that box ? I would call that box theology , and I would wonder what I would consider theologic or not . As a matter of fact , I would have to have a theological understanding/assumption before I could call something not theological , no ?

For instance within my theological concept everything I could ever study is theological , weither its political or psychological or mathematical , its all theological in the sense that it IS theology itself . That is why understanding of Deen is so important , you cant keep God locked with that box . If I would follow your logic within my theological understanding , I shouldnt study anything at all .

The interesting thing is that whenever mankind associated something with God , he started studying that essence to understand God because it was of Him .

So what you would once call that box another would call astronomy , it all depends in howfar you (mankind) have proceeded in your understanding of what is linked directly with your Idea of God .

I agree, but some muslims with good intentions dwell too much in connecting science and the Quran and they go to extremes, like trying to proof that certain numbers in the Quran have actual scientific relevance, ect....When they do that with their good intentions, they are unknowingly subjecting the perfect Quran to error because they interpreted it based on today's knowledge which might be wrong and outdated twenty years from now

But everything is science , is the language in which the Qu'ran is written not scientific ? Just as it is agreed on for instance the 19 of the Qu'ran through agreement of what numbers are (mathematics) in the same way it is agreed that | means Alif and from that is conclusion are combinations of letters drawn and from that you have an interpertation of written ideas (words/sentences/concepts) .

So its all science , the only difference between Islamic scientists today and back then is that the linguistical scientists had quite a clue about this relation between knowledge&written arabic & others to follow them , while today they know little about knowledge&written mathematics & have nobody that follows them because obviously others feel they know better .
What if back then someone else already had a mathematical understanding and shown to the peoples , would you then today disprove of the linguistical-Arabic study of the Qu'ran ?

They learned from others , if others wouldnt be there (like others are not here today) we wouldnt know Arabic in that sense , just like we dont know mathematics now . Should we than have said based on your logic , no lets not learn Arabic lets sit and just look at the Qu'ran all day ?

Does the same not go for all scriptures we have re-discovered in history like for instance Kemetian ? Well that would be a good example for your point actually as the translations are a farce in many ways .

And that is what I really wonder , how do you know that the Arabic that you have learned combined with the semantics you have learned are the true interpertation of Qu'ran ? That science is just passed on like anyother , maybe in time we would discover it is not correct , whats the difference then with what you present on these mathematic understandings of Qu'ran ?

Of course science is being manipulated, it's manipulated everytime it's used by scientists so how do you think the religious people who have no knowledge of science are doing

I understand that scientists & religious folks manipulate everything , I was talking about that site specifically , as it is on that what you commented on with stating manipulation .

I agree that the seperation between Islam and science has been a disaster , in my eyes the seperation is one that didnt seperate anything but created something else : religion . Islam=Deen
Deen includes science

Intentions are good and all but they shouldn't be linked to emotions, and god loves those who reflect and understand.

You are right now making God subject of emotions , I am not linking any emotions with intentions . Understanding means being aware of knowledge , and that brings me to my statements above .

I don't think god love those who are dumb and act dumb with good intentions

Then God would hate the handi-capped
I dount think so , u know there is more to intelligence than acting dumb .

Sheikh in the mosque who has accepted the responsbility of moving masses and talking to masses on Friday while he knows inside of him that he knows shit about science or any other thing and that he is really an ignorant baboon who studied the Quran inside a little room by nodding back and forth can't have good intentions, he's merely enjoying the power and the status

No indeed that wouldnt be good intentions , but I was talking when the intentions are not just good but true & beautifull as well .

Vital
I'm not sure but I think the 1% is saying that wouldn't the circumference percentage be a decimal rather than a whole number if the universe wasn't designed in a certain way out of randomness. But I'm not sure...

If that would be his point it would be weak as it is only known that he does not know the perfection of .9999 not being perfect .
Question is as asked before , what is perfect in the eyes of God .
IMO Mathematics is perfect , thus I would agree its probable God says the same . But I dont know this for sure as I dont know perfection as long as Im not aware of it .

JDog
Really? Is that what it says in the Qua'ran?
No

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Judging by your grammar and spelling and such, you aren't very intelligent

Judging by this statement you make about the relation of grammar and spelling with intelligence you're not either .

Oh boy, people using scientific method on your religious texts! The lie is over! AHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

The lie indeed is , however the lie has little to do with Qu'ran or Islam but with the lyers .

Since when is the Qua'ran perfect?

Thats the whole idea doofus , its perfect by defintion as its the word of God who is perfect by definition as well . The fact that you have an imperfect interpertation of it doesnt degrade its perfection .

There isn't one shred of objective evidence stating the Qua'ran is correct or legitimate.

?

You liken those who don't believe to a scumbag like the Khomeini, when in fact, sharing a non-belief in the uttlerly rediculous with a total ass like he is doesn't make us in any way associated with him.

What was your point with this ? Are you implying we should take Khomeini's word ?

And why the hell WOULD we believe the Qua'ran is right?

For the same reason you believe any other science is right , by testing it .

Stay ignorant, don't learn, don't question. That's the religious creedo.

Hey we agree on something , lol

Ok, what do you base this on? What level of education in any form of science do you have? What makes you think science can be manipulated, or is manipulated by scientist?

Science is being manipulated for ages man get real please , anthropology , history , logic even its all manipulated into bias .

Your Muslim people borrowed science and math from the Indians, Greeks and Egyptians and improved upon them. In some cases, Muslims became the greatest names in their field, like Al-Tusi, the father of trigonometry. Granted, Trig was invented by the Greeks, but through the use of astronomy, the Muslims improved it.

Lets be clear on what we compare shall we . You cant compare just any random movements , the Greeks learned from Babylon quite alot thats us as well . Either compare peoples or religions dont mix up the 2 like that .

How is science on your mind when your teachers tell you that the West is science and it is evil?

Actually the implications of "evil science" deal rather with dialectism & darwinism that shredded moral values in name of science through political movements .

Today an example would be lets clone babies because we can etc . Before you know it you might be able to make a baby within a guy and make him poop it out and moralisation of such would then be considered problematic .

I agree that moral values should not depend on possibilities only , therefor just having scientific knowledge should not have authority .

Thats a "hey we discovered u can die-lets kill everybody" mentality and that is not very wise .

Ok, another untruth. You have this notion of a time when the scope of science was studied by a single individual. This is crap. Science has ALWAYS had these seperate "Disciplines" as you call them, or seperate fields. Always. It was only after time that people started realizing the connection between some of them, not the other way around. I mean, where the hell do you get this information from?

Seems you rather than Flores are the one who should get better information as sciences evolved from logos (knowledge) in itself entirely even with you Greek-worshippers .

In ancient Babylon & Kemet sciences were one , why did you think Greeks invented philosophy ? No philosophizing before that ? Sure there was , just not seperate from everything else .

Sure someone know this better than that , but a scientist in general went with knowledge in general rather than a specific knowledge .

We could only wish it still was like that , so that we actually learn something of life than rather now absolutely everything about one stupid little thing .

I believe this to be at the root of the de-formation of Western society as it is today .

Crap. Science and religion were never one in the same. There is no way to teach a "holy science" because the facts of the world go against creationism.

What are you talking about man , sure as hell they were one what did you think there was no theology before Christianity (I mean let the Jews be the Jews they werent quite the master conquerers .... ahum) .

Oh man ....... Im getting worried about you .
But we know you have capability to improve

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I can't even decipher that paragraph of run-on sentances.


I could . Now is my capability a handicap or would your handicap be capability ?

LOL

But thanks DAWG & DJ , you prove me quite well your position . I wonder weither it would actually matter what Flores would have said , as long as its from her religious perspective .

I dont think so

 

Ok, Ghassan, I will try to be kind as I disassemble you.

This is an inaccurate statement. The fact that I could point out her errors in spelling and grammar indicate that I am intelligent enough to know she was wrong. It may make me a jerk, but that doesn't mean I'm stupid.

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You will have to elaborate here. If you mean the people who twist religious teachings to suit thier own needs, then I agree to that extent. But...there is no evidence to say that any religious text is anything but a lie. So on what do you base that statement?

Ok...at this point, Ghassan, you've lost me. You are simply assuming in this quote that God exists. To say I have an "Imperfect interPREtation" of the "Word of God" is also inaccurate, because there is no evidence of God's existance.

What don't you understand about that? There...is...not...one..shred...of...evidence...stating...the...Qua'ran...is...correct...or...legitimate. Hence, your faith is based on NOTHING.

Man, you really are sold on the God idea, aren't you? Well, just to clear the air, I was not implying you should take Khomeini's word on anything. Khomeini was stating fact, and that is "Islam is a lie." because without evidence in favor of Islam, it is, in fact, nothing more than a lie. Is that clear now?

So you've tested the Qua'ran? You know how old it really is? You've made sure that there were no earlier versions (which have already been discovered) ? You know that the "God" who supposedly wrote it exists? Where is the evidence? Show me, Ghassan. Show me.

I'll give you that one. She said "Arab," not "Muslim."

Are you saying we should stay ignorant, or are you saying that it IS in fact the creedo of all organized religions?

First of all, "Science is being manipulated for ages man get real please," is TERRIBLE sentance structure, and the grammar is AWFUL.

Secondly, where is the evidence that says science has been manipulated? And to what bias? (Yeah, I know, it kinda sucks that us atheists won't blindly believe like you do, and make you provide evidence for everything, but hey, that's the life of an intelligent person)

Dude...how did Darwin shred moral values? Look...religions were created as a means to impart moral values unto a primative people. It was thought that they would not have any other way of keeping themselves in check at the time. Today, however, we have evolved, and have installed a set of laws which will punish you IMMEDIATELY, rather than after you die. Hence, religion is no longer neccisary. Hence, your fear that loss of religion = loss of morality is unwarranted.

Ok, who says cloning is wrong? The only people who have a real gripe with it are theists. They say it goes against God. Let me make this clear, again: Cloning's only detractors are theists, because they created a moral standard which has no bearing on reality.

First of all, I'm part Greek, so mind the racist comments, towel-head.

Secondly, you may have a point. I don't know. I'm too tired to look it up right now. BUT I WILL TOMARROW!

Another oxymoronic, unintelligent statement. If we learn everything there is to learn about everything there is to learn, then we learn MUCH more than we would if we were just reading the footnotes. Understand?

Ok, when did I say the Greeks invented philosophy? That's your racism and religion screaming, not your brain. And show me some evidence that philosophy wasn't a seperate topic in regards to religion and science.

When did I say there wasn't? The point I was making was this: Science, by nature, cannot be taught in tandem with religion. If it were, then the people teaching it did not believe in his religion. Why? Because science, in all forms, goes against religion.

You are blind to what she said, aren't you? If she had argued in favor of MY side of the debate, then I would have completely agreed, no matter what her religious beliefs are. But the point is that her religion blinds her to truth. She was speaking, for the most part, out of her ass. I will not get into this, because I've already crushed her argument in my previous post.

In conclusion, Ghassan, you are no better than Flores, as you are generally unintelligent and completely brainwashed by your religion. You profess science, yet you refuse to practice it or believe it's findings in regards to your faith. Basically, you want to have your Islam and eat it, too.

JD

 

Too all those hopeless cases church brain washed persons, JD/Persol/DJsupremem, Jeremy, ect....ect.....
Answering you would be the equivalent to milking a bull and expecting milk to actually come out.......So excuse me if you notice that I will continue to state my prespective in the future while totally ignoring your comments on my ideas.......I don't read past the second lines in your posts, so save your wrist muscle and don't comment on my prespective.

What do you say......agree? or continue to be bulls that act like milk giving cows.

 

Say Dog :

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This is an inaccurate statement. The fact that I could point out her errors in spelling and grammar indicate that I am intelligent enough to know she was wrong. It may make me a jerk, but that doesn't mean I'm stupid.

No it was very accurate . The fact you point out such errors was not the point , the point was the relation you try to establish between her intellect and those errors :

Judging by your grammar and spelling and such, you aren't very intelligent

Comprende ?

But...there is no evidence to say that any religious text is anything but a lie. So on what do you base that statement?

On the fact that peoples have not proven capability in actually deciphering religious texts . You use words like truth/lie easily , but really what is it about those scriptures that you consider untruthfull ?

That same aspect I consider highly possible to be mis-interperted(in native tongue) and very much mis-translated . And on top of all of this come what you mention the political twistings . It has reached levels so messed up you might as well make up your own sentences an there is quite a chances you are closer to the actual scriptures than the religious interperteurs are with their fables .

Ok...at this point, Ghassan, you've lost me. You are simply assuming in this quote that God exists. To say I have an "Imperfect interPREtation" of the "Word of God" is also inaccurate, because there is no evidence of God's existance.

There is no evidence of Gods existence if you define Islamic God as the deity-entity that is somewhere and has created us all , but how do you know that this is the correct Islamic interpertation of its theology ? Thats just what religious leaders and common Muslims will tell , but have you discovered such yourself ? No you havent , you have not one clue .

So I say before you say its not true because God doesnt exist , I rather you think about what God actually is . Is that the same as how they present it ? I dont think so .

The idea that it is the word of God deals with the assumption that it is the perfect book . You see its simply a switch between the word perfect and the word God , they are one and the same . Only God can be the ultimate perfection .

What don't you understand about that? There...is...not...one..shred...of...evidence...stating...the...Qua'ran...is...correct...or...legitimate. Hence, your faith is based on NOTHING.

My theologic understanding is not based on emotional attachmenet as "faith" deals with . You say weither "the Qu'ran is legit or correct" , what exactly do you mean ? What about the Qu'ran ? Are you looking for some document that sais : Qu'ran=truth ? What would that prove ? The only proof that teh Qu'ran is truth is the Qu'ran itself , study it and discover weither or not you consider it truth . Thing is you are here considering this or that truth or not , without really knowing what it is .

Let me put it simple : Is the Islamic understanding deity-worshippers hold the truth ? No it isnt . Got passed that point ? Good . Now then you should study the Qu'ran and understand that such God as everybody supposes doesnt exist , entire new worlds will open in front of your eyes .

You'll find out you never knew shit about it in the first place .

Man, you really are sold on the God idea, aren't you?

See this is what im talking about ....the God idea , but do you know this God idea of mine ? No you just know your own , based on what others say , and refute that . Why does everybody so simple assume a supposed God idea ? Just because its all Abrahamic so probably its all the same ? Because all those peoples following it believe in the same God ?

Khomeini was stating fact, and that is "Islam is a lie." because without evidence in favor of Islam, it is, in fact, nothing more than a lie. Is that clear now?

Khomeini wasnt stating any fact as im sure Khomeni has figured out a way to prove that Qu'ran agrees with him .

You tell me Islam is a lie , you never even seen a damn Qu'ran in your life . Hey if Islam is a lie then I migh as well say so are you .

Yep you're a lie you dont exist because I dont consider letter on my screen alive because thats how I experience you . Do you experience that in the same way ? Was my experience as such your intention ? Let me explain it one more time to you . You know absolutely nothing about Islam . Instead you know what other peoples believe about Islam . Thats fine refute their points , but dont refute Islam as you dont know weither or not it is the same as those followers of it (&others) say it is .

So you've tested the Qua'ran?

Im studying

You know how old it really is?

I have no clue and I dont think Im at such a fase where I would actually wonder its age . Sofar its irellevant .

You've made sure that there were no earlier versions (which have already been discovered) ?

I have little problems with earlier versions , obviously they were no "perfect" enough .

You know that the "God" who supposedly wrote it exists?

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Stop trying to convince me there is no God man . You might as well say there's no sloroforo as I probably dont agree with on what that means either . This is a semantical issue here dude .
I dont believe in such a God as you propose .

Where is the evidence? Show me, Ghassan. Show me.


Just look around you . Why is it there ? Whi makes it be there ? What is that what you see ? Let go of God=creating deity for a second , and you'll find plenty of God everywhere . Absolutely everywhere .

Are you saying we should stay ignorant, or are you saying that it IS in fact the creedo of all organized religions?


Ofcourse we shouldnt stay ignorent , havent you read what Ive posted to her ? It IS the creedo (?) of the organized religions .

First of all, "Science is being manipulated for ages man get real please," is TERRIBLE sentance structure, and the grammar is AWFUL.

Stop this damn anglo-centrism or Ill start talking to you in French and German ok ?

Secondly, where is the evidence that says science has been manipulated? And to what bias? (Yeah, I know, it kinda sucks that us atheists won't blindly believe like you do, and make you provide evidence for everything, but hey, that's the life of an intelligent person)

Hey what the hell man I bet I believe a lot less BS than you do , I for one DONT believe that what you understand as God is mentioned in ANY of the ancient scriptures . You're the believer here not me . You just believe it DOESNT exist , whats the difference ?

Didnt I mention History & Anthropology ? Oh My do I have to point out you situations were peoples have lied ? OMG I cant believe you're seriously saying this . Get real dude , if you dont know peoples twist historical facts into their own favor then Uve must been yesterday or something .....

Here I have an example that pops into my mind , on Egyptemology (sp?) . You ever heard of book of dead ? Im sure you did . Thing is however thats not how its called . Its called book of coming forth . So now why do you believe its called book of dead then ? Could it be they simply have talked bullpoo ?

Dude...how did Darwin shred moral values?

By proving we're animals , evil/good & such became simply natural things in order to survive .

Look...religions were created as a means to impart moral values unto a primative people.

Yeah for the Christians perhaps but the Hebrews were Hibiru from Egypt and the Arabs were quite developped as well before Qu'ran came along.

, however, we have evolved, and have installed a set of laws which will punish you IMMEDIATELY, rather than after you die

Those were there before religion , you say silly things man

Hence, religion is no longer neccisary.

As if punishment is all to it , its not just a legal system ..... oh well

Hence, your fear that loss of religion = loss of morality is unwarranted.

Western-Europe has proven differently .

Ok, who says cloning is wrong?

I dont say it is wrong by definition , I do say however that all morons will use it very wrongly by "almost" definition .

They say it goes against God. Let me make this clear, again: Cloning's only detractors are theists, because they created a moral standard which has no bearing on reality.

Moral standard with no bearing on reality ? How do hell do you equate all theists here with some moral standard ? Proves your knoledge on the subject Id say .....

And no not just theists are against cloning .

First of all, I'm part Greek, so mind the racist comments, towel-head.

I didnt call you anything as being a Greek you know have for me being an Arab .

Another oxymoronic, unintelligent statement. If we learn everything there is to learn about everything there is to learn, then we learn MUCH more than we would if we were just reading the footnotes. Understand?

No , care to explain ? I dont think it had anything to do with what ive said .... but hey I DONT KNOW so I better not judge it yet .

Ok, when did I say the Greeks invented philosophy?

Did I say you did ? I say u thought it . I might have been wrong but its actually irellevant for my point . My point was that before the Greeks made a seperate understanding for philosophy it was one with all the rest of knowledge .

That's your racism and religion screaming, not your brain. And show me some evidence that philosophy wasn't a seperate topic in regards to religion and science.

Im not being racist so .....
And you know little about my supposed religion so .......

Have you ever seen a word for philosophy before the Greeks ? Show me please . I say semantical segregation would prove weither it existed or not .

If it were, then the people teaching it did not believe in his religion. Why? Because science, in all forms, goes against religion.


Does it ? Well it indeed goes against what all religious peoples believe , but hey .... who's arguing that , not me .
Does it however go against the scriptures ? And as far as I am concerned for the moment by scriptures I mean Qu'ran .

You are blind to what she said, aren't you?

Not really but you dont seem to have checked out what i have said to her .

In conclusion, Ghassan, you are no better than Flores, as you are generally unintelligent and completely brainwashed by your religion.

1)Intelligence ? I say no need to humiliate you on that anymore.
2)Religion ? LOL . You have abslutely no clue what my position is with "religion' obviously ......

You profess science, yet you refuse to practice it or believe it's findings in regards to your faith.

All this without knowing what my faith is ..... very very good .
I refuse to practice or believe science LOL .

Basically, you want to have your Islam and eat it, too.

And you just want to remain ignorant so that you can have an opinion . Well enjoy your opinion , but know it is based on bull-poo , very ignorant bull-poo . Its even worse , its the crap those peoples tell you that you refuse to believe . You dont believe the peoples , yet you do believe them to give you an accurat understanding of the entire issue why you dont believe them ? Confused ? Im sorry but weither they're head-nodding and reciting texts they know how to pronounce but not what they mean , so do you in your own special "scientific" way .

Quick test , when I say Taliban what u say ?

 

Thank you Ghassan, I agree with everything you say, and I must say, you have not really disagreed with what I was trying to say initialy, only showed your prespective which include other angles.

I only have a couple of clarifications to ensure that you didn't minunderstand me. When I mentioned that god love those that understand and reflect and he doesn't love the dumb ones, I didn't imply scientists versus a handicap. Not at all. My definition of dumb doesn't agree with the widely known one. Dumb is one that have a certain ability yet they go out of their way to corrupt and abuse such a gift. A handicap who wasn't given an ability and yet lives and smiles is smartest than me, for he took no part in corrupting something that god gave him, while I might be corrupting me. When we are no handicap and are given gifts, we have to reflect and understand to be able to use these gifts as they were intended.

Second, the real reason I don't like mathematical proofs of god lies in my idealogy and personal prespective. You might call it nuts, but my heaven is a place where all people understand the right thing without even speaking it, where nods are sufficient to convey agreements. I view Islam the same way. Islam is a religion of peace. When we study science, we need not turn around and rub it all over the Quran to confirm to ourselves and others. We should study and find things out and then look at each other without saying a word regarding religion and smile with satisfaction knowing in our hearts that the Quran and our faith is true. I dreamt one night that I met Prophet Muhammed in heaven and I had nothing to tell him but nod and say Salam. Can you believe that, I could have asked anything I wanted, but I couldn't another word but Salam.

 

Flores

So excuse me if you notice that I will continue to state my prespective in the future while totally ignoring your comments on my ideas

This is most likely the attitude that originally got you banned; heflores.

Second, the real reason I don't like mathematical proofs of god lies in my idealogy and personal prespective. You might call it nuts, but my heaven is a place where all people understand the right thing without even speaking it, where nods are sufficient to convey agreements. I view Islam the same way.

You see, it’s all in your imagination – there is no basis of reality in your words.

I dreamt one night that I met Prophet Muhammed in heaven and I had nothing to tell him but nod and say Salam.

Yes, it’s all a dream. Try not to mistake it for reality.

 

Allahs/Jihad/Ghassan/Bhudmaash

You use words like truth/lie easily , but really what is it about those scriptures that you consider untruthfull ?

The fact that those scriptures are perceived to be the word of a god when in fact they are nothing more than the word of common men of that era.

I rather you think about what God actually is .

An entity created in the imaginations of those same common men.

The only proof that teh Qu'ran is truth is the Qu'ran itself

Ridiculous, you could say the same thing about any book of fiction.

Thing is you are here considering this or that truth or not , without really knowing what it is .

The same could be said about you. You assume the truth without ever thinking about it – that’s called brain-washing.

I have little problems with earlier versions , obviously they were no "perfect" enough .

This is silly. How can anything that is considered perfect not be ‘perfect enough?’

I dont believe in such a God as you propose .

But you do believe in something like a god that has no basis in reality or has ever been shown to exist. Your belief is based on what common men wrote many years ago. Those men were ignorant to world around them.

Just look around you … you'll find plenty of God everywhere . Absolutely everywhere .

I see a physical nature and that which follows the laws of a physical nature. I see not gods – where are they?

Why is it there ? Whi makes it be there ?

By asking that question, you assume there must be a reason for existence. But instead, you should ponder the notion that perhaps there is no reason for existence – in other words, we simply exist. When you think about it and begin to realize that a reason for existence is not necessary, your belief in gods begins to whither away.

Get real dude , if you dont know peoples twist historical facts into their own favor then Uve must been yesterday or something

And yet you’re perfectly willing to accept a book of words (scriptures) written by common men as ‘perfect.’ Get real dude.

 

Flores admits:

Thank you Ghassan, I agree with everything you say, and I must say, you have not really disagreed with what I was trying to say

No surprises here. You two belong together.

 

Originally posted by Flores
Too all those hopeless cases church brain washed persons, JD/Persol/DJsupremem, Jeremy, ect....ect.....
Do you pay attention? I suppose not, since I do not support a believe in God, no matter what you call it.

Answering you would be the equivalent to milking a bull and expecting milk to actually come out.......
You're 'logic' is fully of inconsitencies which I continue to point out... yet you never respond to. Using your analogy, you don't understand the difference between the bull and the cow.

So excuse me if you notice that I will continue to state my prespective in the future while totally ignoring your comments on my ideas
I see. So your opinion should be read and thought about, but everybody elses should be ignored. Um... yeah... ok

I don't read past the second lines in your posts, so save your wrist muscle and don't comment on my prespective.
The fact that you don't read other's opinions and thought is demonstrated quite plainly in your posts.

 

I think Q perfectly stated my case.

Ghassan, apparently you dont' belong to any religious organization as of yet, but you seem to be searching for one in the Qua'ran. This is why I assumed you were Muslim.

You are, however, under the impression that there is a god of some sort, or a higher purpose for being here. This, my friend, is not true. There is no high purpose. There is no reason. We are here due to the evolutionary process, and that's that.

It doesn't have to be the same god. The fact that these people worship A god at all makes in untrue. Your god, thier god, my god...it's all fantasy.

I'm sorry, but it does reflect her intelligence. She obviously didn't pay much attention in english class, and most likely many others, hence her intelligence is fairly low. The fact that you cannot make the connection makes you fairly unintelligent as well.

Says who? You? What makes you the expert?

Just like Q stated, the scriptures in the Qua'ran state that they are the words of God. God does not exist. Hence, the scriptures are not true. And there is no scientific evidence that anything in those scriptures actually took place.

I agree. And people DID make up their own sentances. That's how the book got here in the first place.

We're getting into semantics here. If you mean the "Qua'ran is truth" in the sense that the text itself exists, then yeah, duh, of course. But I think you're saying that the scriptures of the Qua'ran are true, in which they are not.

Becuase that is what it says in the Qua'ran. If you want to argue that the Qua'ran didn't origionally say that, well, the earliest versions of the texts say exactly that God created the universe. But I suppose here you will say that they were mistranslated, an argument which you cannot back up with evidence.

This statement implies that you believe in a god. Although you say your interpretation of "god" is that it means perfection, your view is still wrong. There is no perfection in nature. Plants have natural defense mechanisms, yet they can be overcome by an intelligent or adapted creature. Every living being on this planet has a predator, even us. Our intelligence can overcome any other living being, yet individuals are vanquished by sharks, bees, mosquitos, virii, bears, lions, tigers, trees, ect., ect.. And consider this: If we are perfect, why do men have nipples?

Anglo-centrism? Dude, people would call your sentance structure and grammar awful no matter what part of the world you were in.

Wrong. I've seen plenty of the Qua'ran in my lifetime. Way to go just assuming that I haven't. And yes, Islam is a lie, just like Christianity and Judaism are lies.

Another red flag for your stupidity. The words on the screen that you use to experience me are not created by themselves. Even if the words you read were just a program that automatically spat this argument out, you would still be experiencing me, simply because I would have had to write the program.

If you're saying I only have second-hand information of Islam, you're wrong again. I have studied Islam plenty.

I know of it through the Qua'ran AND the experiences of others. You're also implying that learning of Islam through others cannot give one the correct meaning behind it, which would imply that no one has ever learned the correct meaning of Islam, which would include you, Ghassan. Your circular logic traps you yet again.

I have and I do. My worlds are already open, friend.

Wrong. This is the Merriam-Webster definition of "God:"

1 capitalized : the supreme or ultimate reality: as a : the Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshiped as creator and ruler of the universe b Christian Science : the incorporeal divine Principle ruling over all as eternal Spirit : infinite Mind
2 : a being or object believed to have more than natural attributes and powers and to require human worship; specifically : one controlling a particular aspect or part of reality
3 : a person or thing of supreme value
4 : a powerful ruler

God, therefore, in definition, implies a sentinent being. One who created all that we see. The semantics promblem here lies in the fact that you've attributed a false definition to the word.

Anthropology? Name me a case.

But that is a nonpoint, because you cannot manipulate science. All one can do is input lies into the equation, as in the case of history, and hope that the outcome is one that better suited them. This is still not manipulation of science. It is lying.

And what's wrong with that? Good and evil are in the eye of the beholder. Murder is evil, correct? Well, what if it is in order to protect your mother from a gun-toting assasin? Would it be evil then? Adolph Hitler thought it was "Good" to attempt genocide. He considered it a good thing to kill millions of Jews. To me it was evil, but to him it was not. See what I mean?

If you can't handle a world where we are animals and survival is based on your abilities, then I'm sorry for you. But that's life.

And what is an "Almost" definition?

Did I say Islam? Did I say Qua'ran? I said "Religion." And they had religions long before they were advanced. I never said that Islam was intended to be a means to controll a primative people, but it WAS intended to control a people, primitive or not. Think about it...religion still controlls people today, and we're not primitive.

Your opinion, not based on anything factual.

Yes, it does go against the scriptures. Read the scriptures, then study the sciences. The scriptures say God created Heaven and Earth. Science says the Big Bang did.

Basically, you knocked the different fields of science, saying that if we were to learn about the overall picture rather than learning everything about every "Stupid little thing," we would be better off. I said that you were wrong, because if you learn everything about everything, you are getting a much deeper understanding of the overall picture. Your idea is that there is no need to learn so much about everything. If you didn't mean that, you sure as hell made it sound like you did.

You still have yet to tell me what your opinon is based on. Your opinion is that Islam cannot be understood today, because all the people know is the Qua'ran, which has been mistranslated and cannot be read correctly.

I base MY opinion on science. What do you base yours on? Where is the proof that the Qua'ran was mistranslated? Where is the proof that the people are missing a "Higher Meaning" in it's words?

JD

 

(Q)/Mr G/alanh/DJ

*Agreeing with someone doesnt make you the same person , in your case the question is irellevant . Hey maybe Im Flores & Proud_Syrian as well . Yes thats it Im ALL Muslims , its a farce Muslims dont exist I made them up . *Laughing-Out-Loud*

*Islamic scientists who have written the Qu'ran are as as common as Kong Fu Zi or Socrates . Your problem is not understanding what word of God means within Qu'ranic understanding .

*An entity created in the imaginations of a billion followers today does not have to equate to an entity created in the imaginations of Islamic scientists & Muhammad (SAW) . IMO Muhammad nor the Islamic scientists believed in deity-worship . IMO Islam is the refusal of deity-worship through the understanding that there is nothing only Allah .

*The proof of Qu'ranic truth to be Qu'ran itself does not equate to any other "fictious" book as it does not provide proof of truth .
Your problem is that you do not understand that Truth is 1 of Allah's names (Al-Haq) and is nothing but perfection itself . If Qu'ran can prove to be most perfect then that is as much of "perfection itself" that us humans can experience .

But you're stuck on an invisible entity that nobody is arguiing you about , leading you nowehere but to complain on how its not the true word of God as the God you imagine does not exist . You argue over 0 .

The same could be said about you. You assume the truth without ever thinking about it – that’s called brain-washing.

I think Im alot more skeptical than you are Q , I simply assume here a premis , one you obviously cannot grasp . I wonder who washed my brain ........ ?

This is silly. How can anything that is considered perfect not be ‘perfect enough?’

Oh come'on now you are talking about all this eternal non-space/time perfection , have you not learned thats not how the world turns ? Ofcourse you have but since you are dealing with a Muslim you automatically assume everything , you shouldnt makes you look foolish when you're wrong . Oh here's that assumption again , I guess the trick lies in assuming that whats most probable , and you already did : still wrong . I say thats a matter of errorous application of statistics . And that deals with logics , yes Q logics is indeed a bitch for you .

But you do believe in something like a god that has no basis in reality or has ever been shown to exist.

Actually I dont believe in something that has no basis in reality or has been ever shown to exist . It has basis in nowehere else than what is real , and it is showing always & everywhere .

Your belief is based on what common men wrote many years ago. Those men were ignorant to world around them.

No you and like all other idiots who screw up scriptures seem to have this wonderfull idea of what was in a persons mind . It is ok such happens with all peoples who have written and about who is written . The thing is it is you and yours who are common and who interpret those scriptures in your own common way that deals with some school-play biblicism , Im very sorry to inform you but that isnt what is said in the Qu'ran and I doubt that it is any different for all the other scriptures .

But hey should I be surprised that such interpertations are coming from the same peoples who believe there were some "Egyptians" who worshipped the dead with their special book , and Socrates really wondered weither the "Gods" liked the good because it was "virtuous", or was it virtuous because "the Gods" liked it . 2300 years later and peoples still do not understand that "Gods" can be replaced by humans and the question actually even seems to be actual all time everywhere .

Y'all still dont know . Please spare me your Qu'ranic interpertation when you dont even know how Allah is written in Arabic , and go back to calling semites anti-semitic against slavs & germans and thinking Rasta means hippy in Jamaican . You're not worth credibility .

I see a physical nature and that which follows the laws of a physical nature. I see not gods – where are they?

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In your ass Q

By asking that question, you assume there must be a reason for existence.

The reason for existence is existence itself .

But instead, you should ponder the notion that perhaps there is no reason for existence – in other words, we simply exist.

I should pounder that notion ? Stop scratching your head you baboon , lol .

When you think about it and begin to realize that a reason for existence is not necessary, your belief in gods begins to whither away.

Oh really it does ? Then really dont I anyonger worship invisble space-aliens ? Oh the joy , I should start rightaway .

And yet you’re perfectly willing to accept a book of words (scriptures) written by common men as ‘perfect.’ Get real dude

1)not common man , you're common man .
2)its perfect as long as you cant show me anything that is more perfect .
3)U're the one accepting things (meaning of the scriptures) just like that , Im not accepting anything like that at all , Im finding out for myself . Meanwhile you stare at this for a second and tell me what it means and why :

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No fucking clue have you ? Sure you migh figure out the overal name that it is known by , but can you tell me why thats what it is ? No you cant .

 

Allahs/Jihad/Ghassan/Bhudmaash

Well, your post is pointless – you threw out a bunch of inane insults, stated that your scriptures are perfect, or more perfect than perfect before, I’m still not exactly sure what you meant by that, and that’s about it. All in all, gibberish.

Everyone go home – nothing to see here.