Masculinity and men

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by Buddha1, Jan 2, 2006.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. leopold Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    17,455
    this is wrong buddha. a persons personality is determined by how their parents raise them. i personaly do not "conform" to anything.
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. Buddha1 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,219
    So you agree (and you knew all along, even if subconsciously) that manliness, and masculinity are important issues for men --- enough to take cudgels with me for.
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. leopold Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    17,455
    i love you buddha
    i want to hug you
    said in a public forum
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. Buddha1 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,219
    If you're not deliberately making this up, then you mistunderstood my post.

    I didn't say that, Satyr said that. I just quoted him to remind him.
     
  8. leopold Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    17,455
    well?
     
  9. leopold Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    17,455
    my bad, sorry
     
  10. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    19,083
    No, I don't think I did. Or maybe I didn't pay any importance to it. I don't really care about social problems of men if they have any (and you say they do).
     
  11. Buddha1 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,219
    My definitions are based on observing the 'nature' of men, which is many a times different from what they say or act.

    GENDER: Gender refers toInner-Sex

    One's Gender identity comprises of the predominant inner-sex.

    A male inner-sex and the corresponding energy is known as 'masculinity', and and female inner-sex and the corresponding energy is known as femininity.

    Gender like sexual feelings are also a continuum, and most people have both masculinity and femininity. But the predominant Gender is felt as an identity --- in that people see themselves as their inner-sex, relate with others with reference to their inner-sex, rather than their outer sex, and people also do the same. Therefore it makes sense to make the Predominant Gender into a social identity, which is not the case with Sexuality.

    SEXUALITY:
    Well, if you really ask me, there is no such thing like 'sexuality' in nature or in non-western cultures.

    I once wrote a book in my vernacular language, and use a literal translation for the word 'sexuality' Believe me, nobody understood the word 'sexuality'. There is no concept of looking at the sexual aspect of life as separate from the other aspects of one's life or personality.

    No western scholar has yet been able to define sexuality --- not even masters and johnsons who wrote an entire chapter on sexuality --- without defining it clearly.

    The concept of 'sexuality' is also a result of an intense suppression of sexual needs of people by Christianity. Since other cultures did not experience such intense suppression, they did not have the concept of sexuality. But that's a point for another discussion.

    I think, it would be best if you could give me your own definition (or one that you've read) of sexuality.
     
  12. Buddha1 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,219
    To go by one western interpretation of the word 'sexuality' --- i.e. so-called 'sexual orientation', it serves no useful purpose to establish a social identity on the basis of sexuality or to divide the society along its lines.

    Because human beings don't naturally see or feel their sexual needs as an identity. Sexuality just refers to an interest which does not translate into an idenitity naturally, unless the society creates intense artificial environment that forces you to identify as such.
     
  13. leopold Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    17,455
    alright buddha
    from a poor dumb 'ol boys point of view
    i was born male my gender is male

    sexuality is what i do with my dick, be it fucking tomatos or vaginas or hands or other men, in short it is whatever makes me "cum"
     
  14. Buddha1 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,219
    Surprisinlgy this is true, even when if you go by the image the media builds -- it is unbelievable.

    This lady from the U.S. who was working on AIDS with young men (not particularly 'gay' men) told me in a conference that in the group that she has observed (which was latino, economically poor group), men did not really see themselves as heterosexual or homosexual, and many men indulged in sex with men without seeing themselves as homosexual.

    That was a surprise for me, but it also shows that the entire concept of 'sexual orientation' is a creation of the 'middle class'.

    It's not important for this discussion's sake, but since you raked this up, Science did originate in the west, and whatever we know of it, we have learned from the west. Science often goes in the face of traditional wisdom, and often challenges it.
     
  15. Buddha1 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,219
    Are you saying this is the western understanding of the term gender?

    Gender is a word (like several other important words) which is used ambigously for different things.

    Gender and sex are used interchangeably, but that's ridiculous. If they were one and the same thing, there would not be need for two terms.

    Surely, many males have a penis but they may feel slightly or predominanlty a female. Which means that there is something in them which tells them they have a female in them.

    I think that's an incomplete definition of sexuality. Women, for instance, don't always want to 'cum' when they want sex.

    And sexual need is not all about 'cumming' whether for men or for women. There are a lot of other things like emotional involvment, love, crush etc., etc.

    As far as 'cumming' part is concerned, then the penis is so made that anything can make it cum. You can rub it against the wall or against a pet and come. In that case it is no use talking about 'heterosexual' or 'homosexual'.
     
  16. leopold Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    17,455
    i hate to say it but you are right now practising "western" science.
    you have put forth a theory and are now searching for the evidence to support it or disprove it.
    when you find such evidence then you revise your theory to fit what you found.
     
  17. Buddha1 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,219
    Ground reality here refers to what actually people go through or experience or feel.
     
  18. leopold Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    17,455
    i can see you are going to be difficult


     
  19. Buddha1 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,219
    When in Rome do as Romans do.

    I don't have to be so 'bound' with 'evidences' and 'procedures' when I'm talking to people in my own country, especially with the 'commoners'. You can actually speak to their 'heart', though you also use logic --- and the spirit of science without losing touch with the human angle.
     
  20. leopold Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    17,455
    i feel i might have misled you

    when you spoke of a man feeling female inside, that is not homosexuality
    what do you mean by a man feeling female?
    by wanting to bear children?
    a coward?
    what?
     
  21. Buddha1 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,219
    If you are talking in terms of 'sexual orientation' then I mean both homosexuality and heterosexuality, because the essence of both of them according to me are dominated by feminine gendered individuals.

    But to be fair, here I'm not talking about 'sexual orientation'. E.g., I'm talking about a male's feeling of being feminine whether he likes women or men or both.
     
  22. leopold Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    17,455
    see my last post
     
  23. Buddha1 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,219
    I appreciate your honesty. But this also tells us about our pressures, biases and social-training.
    As a matter of fact it is. But it is a long story. The homosexual identity basically belongs to the feminine gendered male. This is one of the strongest reasons why I say that the word homosexual should not be used for masculine gendered men who openly like men.
    Let me tell you about femininity in males through an extreme example.

    I and my colleague once interviewed an American Transexual male (she had become a woman now). Right from his childhood, he felt he was a girl, not a boy -- and he was attracted exclusively to women. He felt suffocated by his male body. As he grew up his feeling of being a female trapped inside a male body grew. It was not that he felt coward or insufficient or something. Those are social definitions of male femininity, meant to denigrate it. Natural male femininity has its own strengths --- besides its really beautiful.

    In 2000 I attended a workshop on masculinity (when I was being trained), where we were asked to get in touch with the femininity inside us through some exercises. But try as I might, I couldn't do it. I thought I had no femininity in me, and admittedly, I felt rather proud of me (today I know this is no reason to feel proud). But as I analysed things, I figured that I, like other men, have been suppressing whatever I thought was feminine, systmatically since my childhood. Today, I'm unable to get in touch with it. It however, is a biolgical thing and by losing it we lose an important source of inner-power.

    To take a slightly lesser example of femininity in men, you can take the example of 'homosexuals'. They often exaggerate their femininity. But even in the more refined gays you can notice a certain 'femininity' which is difficult to describe. Although it is very beautiful.

    I guess, to understand and appreciate femininity in men you need to work over a number of biases and understand the essence of gender --- these are things which cannot be done without outside held --- e.g. workshops.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page