Marines refuse to leave Berkeley despute Council resolution

Discussion in 'Politics' started by S.A.M., Feb 3, 2008.

  1. ashura the Old Right Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,611
    So you don't think the Council should be protected from this sort of retaliation under freedom of speech? You believe in punishing those who say anything that disagrees with you?

    The proper response from the Senator would've been to issue a statement denouncing the Council's resolution.
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. sandy Banned Banned

    Messages:
    7,926
    These people don't understand/care about "statements". They only understand threats. They thumb their noses at the USA. Time for us to teach them a lesson and cut them off. This is more than freedom of speech. It's about their hate of the USA, our troops, our freedoms, etc. I think W should deport them.
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. ashura the Old Right Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,611
    This kind of response is completely un-American! They should be threatened and punished because of something they said? What about "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"???
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. sly1 Heartless Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    692
    Sam = woman = noted
    thx

    Also the suicide bombers abroad are acting on the same root problem no? (US occupation)

    Regardless I was once a follower of the media and the war on terrorism in the sense that I agreed with the US going over there to protect Americans from future terrorist attacks.

    I know a 3-tour iraq war vet who has PTSD. He showed me some pics of when he was over there. He was a marine scout sniper. Did you know one of the logos for the scout sniper's is the Nazi SS lightning bolts?

    He told me some pretty rediculous stories as well.

    He told me they had an imbedded reporter with them his first tour and that the reporter asked them if he could...."shoot someone" and was rather serious about it.

    He shared many realities of the war with me that no one will get from CNN or MSNBC etc etc......These are stories that will change your perspective on this whole issue with the US occupation. It changed mine.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2008
  8. sandy Banned Banned

    Messages:
    7,926
    No. They should be threatened and punished for what they DID.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  9. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,308
    symbolic speech is also protected
     
  10. ashura the Old Right Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,611
    They haven't done anything besides speak of their disapproval of the marine recruiters being in the city. Whether or not you or I agree or disagree with their disapproval is irrelevant, they should be able to say it without being threatened or punished.
     
  11. Ganymede Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,322
    I agree that some recruiters are predatory. I like the idea of what the ADF is doing. We should adopt something similar in America. That way both sides can be happy. All our military needs to do is double the pay for soldiers and their recruiting woes will be solved.
     
  12. Ganymede Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,322
    I have to agree with As on this one. When I graduated from Highschool, I was under the illusion that I can enlist in buds training and become a Navy Seal. So I went to my local recruiting station and informed them of my aspirations. They told me that once enlisted, I can start buds training in 6 months(Which is a flat out lie). So once I taked it over with my parents, they told me to hold off on any big decisions until I discussed it with them further. They also told the recruiter that they didn't want me to join until we've discussed it as a family. So the recruiter told my parents (right in their face) That he's taking me to M.E.P.S the following day for a physical only. Anyone familiar with the military knows that once you go through the physical at M.E.P.S, you're immediately sworn in the military. So during this ceremony I realized what was going on, and stopped the entire ceremony and informed the General that I wasn't privy to what was taking place. And I wanted to speak with my recruiter.

    Then my recruiter comes storming in M.E.P.S stark raving mad, telling me how much I embarrassed him. I told him to fuck off and take me home. And that's the last time I ever spoke with a military recruiter. So Michael Moores documentary is consistent with the my real life experience with Military recruiters.
     
  13. superstring01 Moderator

    Messages:
    12,110
    Yes, trickery, that's how the military got its recruits! Are you kidding? First off, I don't believe a word of what you say. Second off, during the "swearing in" process you MUST, by law, be asked THREE SEPARATE TIMES (once in front of a federal notary or officer), if you were coerced or tricked in to joining the military (acompanied by signing of paperwork). The entire "swearing in" part takes over an hour and requires you to sign mountains of paperwork. Third off, the entire MEPS process is regulated to take TWO DAYS, and is done so INTENTIONALLY so that the potential recruit has at least 24 hours to think about his commitment.

    How would I know? Simple: I JOINED! I did basic training in Great Lakes, Illinois and I got to know HUNDREDS of guys in my division, NONE OF WHOM ever expressed any doubt about the way they were recruited (now, we did bitch and complain about everything else, and some of us were very close, and still close to this day). What you say is a total joke and if it does take place, it's done so rarely as to make it all but pointless to the overall recruiting strategy. Moreover, with all this military hating going on in the liberal media: one wonders how this story was only blown by the compulsive story-twister, Michael Moore.

    Moore's full of crap. I tend to think you are to, as demonstrated by your total omission of the hoops that one has to go through to join.

    ~String
     
  14. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,308
    the vast majority of milatary recruiters are good. yes their probably are some that attempt to use trickery and deciet to get people in but those are few and far inbetween
     
  15. Echo3Romeo One man wolfpack Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,196
    S.A.M.'s lackluster understanding of American society aside, I'm a bit more concerned about the favoritism that the city council is showing to the Code Pink protesters.

    As part of the bill that got passed the Code Pink'ers are getting free parking in front of the recruiting station and extra noise permits to allow them to protest. Now I'm all for freedom and speech and what not, but what I am deeply concerned about is when a city government begins very clearly using public resources to support one particular side of a partisan issue.

    There is also the larger issue that this debate is clearly not motivated by Don't Ask Don't Tell. If the DOD dropped this policy tomorrow (by order of Congress since they are the ones who need to authorize it), I don't think any reasonable person would conclude that the protesters would just pack up and leave and everything would be hunky-dory.

    It takes at least two trips to MEPS to enter the military. The first time you go, you're given the ASVAB, which is a battery of tests that determines how proficient an applicant is in different vocational areas. Some people take the ASVAB in their junior year of high school if they're looking into the military as a career or an option for personal enrichment before college, and thus are ahead of the ball a little bit. After you take the ASVAB, you either go home and come back to MEPS on another day, or more likely, you spend the night at a hotel nearby and spend a second consecutive day at MEPS beginning the following morning.

    The next day brings the physical exam and the interview for your general background check. If you meet the physical standards, you go see a career counselor, who pulls up your ASVAB scores and uses them to determine which occupations you qualify for. The career counselor helps you choose what job you want to do, and if/when you find something you like, you sign the enlistment contract and are sworn into the inactive reserve of whatever branch it is that you've decided to join. Then you go home as a member of the delayed entry program. As an aside, every enlistee signs up for eight years of service; 3-6 on active duty with the remainder as part of the individual ready reserve. The time you spend in DEP before you leave counts as IRR time, so if you enlist in high school and stay in DEP for a year, then serve four on active duty, you'll have three years left in the IRR where you can be stop-lossed or reactivated if Uncle Sam decides he wants you (again).

    The final time you go to MEPS is the day when you actually leave for boot camp. This can be anytime after your first visit; up to one year. The date you leave is determined largely upon when the school for the job you signed up for has a seat for you, but you can also choose from a range of departure dates back when you first agree to join. It ends up being a combination of both. In my case, I was in DEP for two months because my MOS training wasn't available at the time I wanted to leave. My younger brother enlisted while he was still in high school and was in DEP for 11 months. During your DEP period, it is entirely possible to opt out of your contract without consequence - the cooling off period you mentioned. If you get cold feet or decide there is something else you'd rather be doing, you can simply let your recruiter know and your contract is null and void, while you are given an uncharacterized discharge from the inactive reserve. It would probably piss your recruiter off something fierce though.

    Otherwise, you go back to MEPS on your shipping date, are sworn onto active duty, and leave for boot camp or basic training or the academy of sipping cokes and office chair maintenance if you joined the Air Force.
     
  16. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    53,966
    I agree. The Marines have (almost) NO say in how they are used. The protests should be addressed to the president and the congress.
     
  17. Ganymede Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,322
    They've obviously changed their process. That wasn't the case in 1994. M.E.P.S didn't take 2 days. It took about 8 hours. Then I was led into a room with an American Flag, and a General, who immediately began the pledge. From your experience it sounds like they've changed it, thank goodness.
     
  18. Pandaemoni Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,634
    I believe it was a Frenchman who said that.
     
  19. ashura the Old Right Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,611
    Reputed to be Voltaire, but it's still an ideal that very much captures the heart of freedom of speech.
     
  20. mikenostic Stop pretending you're smart! Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,624
    That's true...to an extent. I actually turned down going into the Air Force for the Marines because the AF would not guarantee me an MOS until I got top boot camp; the Marine Corps did. And aside from a few temp duties that I had here and there, I more or less did what I was trained to do; computer desktop/laptop and network support and admin.
    Plus the Air Force 'Greyhound bus driver' uniforms didn't hold a candle to the Marine dress blues. Haha.
     
  21. Bells Staff Member

    Messages:
    23,728
    *Sigh*

    Enter Sandy..

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    No Sandy. The Senator is only ensuring that the citizens of Berkeley are punished for their right to free speech.

    So now you are advocating the deportation (to where exactly?) of American citizens who have not broken the law? Sheesh Sandy, if you are going to start deporting everyone who does not agree with your views, there will only be you and Coulter left in the US.

    And what exactly have they done that is illegal? They are exercising their right to free speech and voicing a protest. The Council's resolution is an empty one, because they do not have the right or the ability to expel the recruiters from their leased space. This has everything to do with freedom of speech Sandy. I understand such freedoms is hard for you to understand, but even the recruiters in that office recognise that the protesters have every right to be there and to protest, a right recognised by your constitution. I know! You should vote for Huck and then get him to amend your constitution to remove everything about free speech. He's apparently a big fan of changing the constitution to reflect his personal beliefs.

    If the recruiters are using unethical means of recruiting, then I could understand their anger. But, there is not enough information on this issue to really be able to make an argument either way. For all we know, the recruiters also have similar parking permits, etc and the council may have evened out the playing field to give the protesters similar rights. Who knows really.

    I have to agree with Spidergoat though. If they want to protest against the war, they are going about it the wrong way. Those poor recruiters do not have a say in the war. They should take their protests to the President and Congress. The Marines don't have a say, especially a couple of recruiters sitting in an office in Berkeley.

    And thanks for explaining the recruitment process. I was not sure at all how long or whether there was a cooling off period for anyone who changed their mind.
     
  22. sandy Banned Banned

    Messages:
    7,926
    Most of you guys just don't get it. I don't post stuff here to see my words on screen. Here's some damn video:

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    http://www.breitbart.tv/html/41464.html

    These people are scum. We have to deal with the likes of them all the time. They're pathetic anti-America, anti-troops, p*ssy cowards who embarrass much of the rest of my beautiful state.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    The worst thing is that the police are just as bad. They don't enforce any laws unless the crime is committed against a liberal or criminal alien.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  23. Bells Staff Member

    Messages:
    23,728
    To state the obvious, because well, you just don't seem to get it... The protesters are not breaking any laws by protesting.
     

Share This Page