Buffalo Roam keeps bringing up the same counter arguments to the claim that the 1948 Partition was unfair to the Palestinians. Buffalo claims that the British promises to the Jews have some sort of moral weight which is absurd. The British also made promises to the Arabs and the British foreign policy never was governed by morality. In 1947 Jews were 30% of the population of Palestine and owned about 7% of the land of Palestine but were given control over 53% of Palestine by the UN. The UN said that this was fair because more Jews would be coming. The UN does what the member states tell it to do and the member states did what the great power victors of WW2 told them to do so the UN also has no moral authority. I personally suspect that fear of an Arab German alliance in a future WW3 may have played a role in decisions that were made. The only right and wrong we have to go by is that "though shall not steal" even if you have been stolen from. Historians agree that Palestinians were aware that many but not all of the Jews living in Palestine/Israel intended for Jews to displace the Palestinians so expecting the Palestinians to accept being governed by a people who intended to displace them is not realistic. Buffalo claims the Partition was fair because the Palestinians also had Jordan. Jordan is not included in the partition and Buffalo knows this and is being disingenuous. If we added the Jordanians the Arab population numbers would go up and be higher than 70% Arab. 3/4ths of the Land in Jordan should not be counted as land because it is useless dessert and does not have anything of value like oil. Yes Buffalo, some of the land in the Partition was also useless land. Buffalo tries to claim that Jordan is Palestine. Both the Palestinian and Jordanians Ethnic identities were products of British map drawing. Neither ethnic identity existed prior to British control. Arabs vary considerably over distances. Egyptian and Iraqi Arabic speakers can barely understand each other. Saying Jordan is Palestine is like saying Norway is Sweden. They can understand each other. Below: Buffalo's maps and below that the maps that discredit his argument.
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Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! "Soon after the conquest, the Ottomans joined Palestine to the province of Syria, whose capital was Damascus. Palestine itself was divided into five districts, or Sanjaks, each named after its capital; the Sanjak of Gaza, which was the southernmost one, and to the north of it the Sanjaks of Jerusalem, Nablus, Lajjun, and Safed. A Turkish officer was placed at the head of each Sanjak, with the title of Sanjak Bey or Sanjak Beg. The Sanjak Beg of Gaza was the highest-ranking governor in Palestine...All the five Sanjak Begs of Palestine were subordinate to the Beilerbeg, the 'Beg of Begs', of Damascus." Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
In the 1860s Mark Twain visited Palestine and wrote about it. The name of the land was Palestine in his mind. The Jordan valley was the Jordan valley in his mind. TransJordan or Jordan never existed before the British created it. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Below, note Jund Filastin. Arabs don't do the "P" sound and turn "P"s into "B"s or "F"s. Filastin is Arabic for Palestine. "Junds" were the provinces under Arab rule. I think "Jund" also means army. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Below is the best support for Baffalo's Jordan is Palestine in the names Rome gave to it's provinces after crushing the Jewish uprising. The Romans created Palestinian identity and the British strengthened the Palestinian identity. I don't know why the Romans chose to use the name Palistina because the Philistines for whom it was named had not existed as a people for 500 years. The Philistines ceased to be a people distinct from Judeans after the Babylonians destroyed the cities of both nations. Furthermore Philistia was just the area around Gaza. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Bellow is Evidence that Romes creation of Palestine was irrelevant and that Jordan is not Palestine. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Below, look at the borders of the Hasmonean kingdom. Looks like Israel is Jordan. Why don't the Israelis move to Jordan and let the Palestinians have Palestine. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
The only real map http://terms.cyberplace.net/learn.php?title=Image:MiddleEast.A2003031.0820.250m.jpg
Buffalo is an evangelical he's waiting for the Temple Mount to be rebuilt and then Jesus comes down and whisks him away to paradise on earth .... where red necks roam... nirakar, nice maps! But I thought that there was a Jewish kingdom there when the Romans smashed it?
No point really. The division was proportional to the population. (Except possibly in consideration of Transjordan itself.) Nice maps though.
You forgot GeoffP Prelude to possible response by Buffalo: Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
All of teh colors gave me a head ache i honestly lost interest after the 4th one (no offense) because they all seemed like repost. But in truth, did the British cause these problems because the reality is that the Palestinians were supposed to get their own homeland P.S. nice maps.
You seem like a sensible fellow at heart. The British have always been arseholes in international politics. Did they ever do anything right?
Just to clarify and end this in one blow: If you read the actual article, it's fairly clear. "Jordanian ethnicity isn't Palestinian ethnicity", hehe. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Buffalo is quite right, the invention of a Palestinian identity was fueled by Arab political opposition to a Jewish state. There is no other reason they should not be considered a part of Jordan.
