LHC :: Pb-Pb Collisions :: mBH

H

hahnaz

Registered Member
Hello, I am sorry to bother everyone in this forum, but it seems to be the most knowledgeable one.

I have a family member who has gone severely ill, sold most of his belongings and quit his work in fear the world will be ending soon.

He has subscribed to a few "Physics Theorists" such as Otto Rossler and Nicollo Totolli. Unfortunately he has turned me on to these fears and they are beginning to take over my life as well.

I am not very literate but from what I have understood for the most part is that the danger is theorized to be nonexistent because the LHC is analogous to Cosmic Ray collisions, however this is argued to be false by these "fear-mongering Scientists".

Pb - Pb collisions in nature are virtually non-existent in nature. Totoli states with the utmost certainty: "Dear people, dear friends Because the species of cosmic rays (CR) with similar energies as LHC`s planned lead (Pb-Pb) collisions with 1`066 TeV center of mass (c.o.m.) energy is not known, it is not possible to calculate the exact c.o.m. energies of these CR.
It is only possible to guess and calculate: "How energetic has a proton CR to be, when it collides with a stationary proton, to match the energy of LHC`s Pb-Pb collision?" or: "How energetic has a Pb ion CR to be, when it collides with stationary Pb, to match the energy of LHC`s Pb-Pb collision?" - and find out the corresponding energies.
It is possible, that LHC`s planned Pb-Pb collisions will be more energetic than the most energetic CR, which had 320`000`000 TeV in the fixed target system, corresponding to a 775 TeV c.o.m. collision of two protons:
Sqrt ((320`000`000`000`000`000`000 eV ) × (2 × 938`272`046 eV)) = 775 TeV
So if the most energetic CR was a proton that collided on a proton at rest, its c.o.m. energy was less energetic than LHC`s 1148 TeV c.o.m. Pb-Pb collision.
It may be that equal or more energetic Pb-Pb collisions or collisions with equal numbers of nucleon-nucleon interactions AND AT THE SAME TIME equal or higher energies per entire collision do not happen in the Universe.
According to scientists, like Hut & Rees: "How stable is our vacuum?", heavy ion collisions as Pb-Pb are more suitable to induce large vacuum bubbles that could expand and lead to a catastrophic vacuum transition. It is possible that ONLY CERN`s planned Pb-Pb collisions are enough energetic per entire collision AND AT THE SAME TIME have enough nucleon-nucleon interactions per collision, to initiate a catastrophic vacuum transition of the Universe."


This is not the first time I have seen the idea that: The Pb-Pb collisions do not naturally occur, and their energy released far exceeds any CR energy collision in nature. Is this all B.S.? Please help me out!
 
hahnaz said:
Hello, I am sorry to bother everyone in this forum, but it seems to be the most knowledgeable one.

I have a family member who has gone severely ill, sold most of his belongings and quit his work in fear the world will be ending soon.

He has subscribed to a few "Physics Theorists" such as Otto Rossler and Nicollo Totolli. Unfortunately he has turned me on to these fears and they are beginning to take over my life as well.

I am not very literate but from what I have understood for the most part is that the danger is theorized to be nonexistent because the LHC is analogous to Cosmic Ray collisions, however this is argued to be false by these "fear-mongering Scientists".

Pb - Pb collisions in nature are virtually non-existent in nature. Totoli states with the utmost certainty: "Dear people, dear friends Because the species of cosmic rays (CR) with similar energies as LHC`s planned lead (Pb-Pb) collisions with 1`066 TeV center of mass (c.o.m.) energy is not known, it is not possible to calculate the exact c.o.m. energies of these CR.
It is only possible to guess and calculate: "How energetic has a proton CR to be, when it collides with a stationary proton, to match the energy of LHC`s Pb-Pb collision?" or: "How energetic has a Pb ion CR to be, when it collides with stationary Pb, to match the energy of LHC`s Pb-Pb collision?" - and find out the corresponding energies.
It is possible, that LHC`s planned Pb-Pb collisions will be more energetic than the most energetic CR, which had 320`000`000 TeV in the fixed target system, corresponding to a 775 TeV c.o.m. collision of two protons:
Sqrt ((320`000`000`000`000`000`000 eV ) × (2 × 938`272`046 eV)) = 775 TeV
So if the most energetic CR was a proton that collided on a proton at rest, its c.o.m. energy was less energetic than LHC`s 1148 TeV c.o.m. Pb-Pb collision.
It may be that equal or more energetic Pb-Pb collisions or collisions with equal numbers of nucleon-nucleon interactions AND AT THE SAME TIME equal or higher energies per entire collision do not happen in the Universe.
According to scientists, like Hut & Rees: "How stable is our vacuum?", heavy ion collisions as Pb-Pb are more suitable to induce large vacuum bubbles that could expand and lead to a catastrophic vacuum transition. It is possible that ONLY CERN`s planned Pb-Pb collisions are enough energetic per entire collision AND AT THE SAME TIME have enough nucleon-nucleon interactions per collision, to initiate a catastrophic vacuum transition of the Universe."


This is not the first time I have seen the idea that: The Pb-Pb collisions do not naturally occur, and their energy released far exceeds any CR energy collision in nature. Is this all B.S.? Please help me out!
Click to expand...
Yes it is BS. Collisions of far greater energies occur in nature. While they may not involve Pb-Pb collisions, anything we can produce at the LHC falls far short of what can and does happen in nature.

There are others, on this forum who could give you a more technical explanation, but the bottom line is you can rest easy. There is more energy put into creating a collision at the LHC than any collision ever gets close to producing.
 
OnlyMe said:
Yes it is BS. Collisions of far greater energies occur in nature. While they may not involve Pb-Pb collisions, anything we can produce at the LHC falls far short of what can and does happen in nature.

There are others, on this forum who could give you a more technical explanation, but the bottom line is you can rest easy. There is more energy put into creating a collision at the LHC than any collision ever gets close to producing.
Click to expand...

The point is that these energies do not exist in nature...

"It is possible, that LHC`s planned Pb-Pb collisions will be more energetic than the most energetic CR, which had 320`000`000 TeV in the fixed target system, corresponding to a 775 TeV c.o.m. collision of two protons:
Sqrt ((320`000`000`000`000`000`000 eV ) × (2 × 938`272`046 eV)) = 775 TeV
So if the most energetic CR was a proton that collided on a proton at rest, its c.o.m. energy was less energetic than LHC`s 1148 TeV c.o.m. Pb-Pb collision.
It may be that equal or more energetic Pb-Pb collisions or collisions with equal numbers of nucleon-nucleon interactions AND AT THE SAME TIME equal or higher energies per entire collision do not happen in the Universe."

1148 TeV from a heavy-ion is much higher than nature is it not?
 
hahnaz said:
The point is that these energies do not exist in nature...
Click to expand...

This is a false statement. The energies do not come even close to what occurs naturally. We are not that good yet!

They don't even reach the energy levels released in nuclear bombs. If they did the LHC would be a hole in the ground by now.
 
OnlyMe said:
This is a false statement. The energies do not come even close to what occurs naturally. We are not that good yet!

They don't even reach the energy levels released in nuclear bombs. If they did the LHC would be a hole in the ground by now.
Click to expand...
Daecon said:
Where's that quote from?
Click to expand...

This all comes from his facebook, but I have seen the argument in other forums leaving me feeling still slightly confused. This is another quote from him:

"It is not clear whether cosmic ray collisions of ions with at least equal nucleon numbers AND entire c.o.m. collision energy as at the LHC`s 1148TeV Pb-Pb collisions occur(red) in the Universe or not. According to physicists, heavy ions are more suitable than e.g. protons, to produce large, expanding bubbles of true vacuum, which could induce a catastrophic vacuum transition (vacuum decay) of the Universe. Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_vacuum"

In the original post he showed how he arrived at the 1148TeV result. I thought the collisions topped out at 14 TeV I am utterly confused.

"3.5 TeV per beam (per proton) was 2010.
The 1148 TeV is the entire collision energy of two Pb ions, more exactly each Pb ion with 574 TeV resp. each nucleon of Pb ion with 2.8 TeV, at LHC design energy, please see abstract here:
http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-0221/3/08/S08001/
The statement of CERN`s LSAG safety assesment group that: "Nature has already completed about 10^31 LHC experimental programmes since the beginning of the Universe." and all the similar statements and cosmic ray comparisons are only relevant for the LHC`s programme of proton-proton collisions of 14 TeV per collision but they don`t compare cosmic rays with the LHC`s Pb-Pb collisions, one can only guess why...!
http://www.lhcsafetyreview.org/.../cosmic-rays-heavy-ions...
Whether single protons or heavy ions are colliding plays an important role regarding the risk of large, expanding vacuum bubbles and vacuum transition.
Thank you very much."
 
How could they allow such high energy collisions, 1148 TeV with heavy ions? IS that not supremely dangerous?!?!?!?!?!?
 
No. These people know what they're doing and human technology isn't powerful enough to do anything nature already can't.
 
hahnaz said:
How could they allow such high energy collisions, 1148 TeV with heavy ions? IS that not supremely dangerous?!?!?!?!?!?
Click to expand...
They began heavy ion collisions in 2010 and we are still here. http://arxiv.org/abs/1202.3233

There are many naysayers out there who proclaim one catastrophe after anther connected to the operation of the LHC.

You came here asking if these claims were BS and you got an answer. They are BS.
 
OnlyMe said:
They began heavy ion collisions in 2010 and we are still here. http://arxiv.org/abs/1202.3233

There are many naysayers out there who proclaim one catastrophe after anther connected to the operation of the LHC.

You came here asking is these claims were BS and you got an answer. They are BS.
Click to expand...


I understand. I am a layman. But please explain why he is wrong. This shit has ruined my life. I genuinely don't function, I am running in circles reading blog posts, "published papers", and everything you can imagine. I need some comfort other than they are wrong. I am not saying they are visionaries but sites like "http://www.heavyionalert.org/" and Rossler on "www.LifeBoat.com" really poke holes (At least a layman believes it) in CERNs safety assurances.
 
Ignore blog posts and all that stuff. It's just scaremongering rubbish. Same with anti-vaccination blogs, anti-relativity blogs, creationist blogs, and so on.

If it's not a reputable source then it's nonsense and can be ignored.
 
Daecon said:
Ignore blog posts and all that stuff. It's just scaremongering rubbish. Same with anti-vaccination blogs, anti-relativity blogs, creationist blogs, and so on.

If it's not a reputable source then it's nonsense and can be ignored.
Click to expand...

Could you please just explain why this would be incorrect?


It is possible, that LHC`s planned Pb-Pb collisions will be more energetic than the most energetic CR, which had 320`000`000 TeV in the fixed target system, corresponding to a 775 TeV c.o.m. collision of two protons:
Sqrt ((320`000`000`000`000`000`000 eV ) × (2 × 938`272`046 eV)) = 775 TeV
So if the most energetic CR was a proton that collided on a proton at rest, its c.o.m. energy was less energetic than LHC`s 1148 TeV c.o.m. Pb-Pb collision.
 
People talk about the energies achieved at pb collisions being higher per nuclei then other collisions could ever achieve. It is something like 550+Tev/nuclei, which sounds way more than the safety report said was okay for RHIC or even LHC.

"Each lead nucleus contains 82 protons, and the LHC accelerates each proton to an energy of 3.5 TeV, thus resulting in an energy of 287 TeV per beam, or a total collision energy of 574 TeV" Is that not extremely more dangerous than the 14 TeV collisions of Protons? Could this not cause the "creating vacuum bubbles" worries? I am so confused.
 
Center of Mass Energies in these pb- pb collisions according to these skeptics are significantly higher than ever being seen in nature

"Because the species of cosmic rays (CR) with similar energies as LHC`s planned lead (Pb-Pb) collisions with 1`066 TeV center of mass (c.o.m.) energy is not known, it is not possible to calculate the exact c.o.m. energies of these CR.
It is only possible to guess and calculate: "How energetic has a proton CR to be, when it collides with a stationary proton, to match the energy of LHC`s Pb-Pb collision?" or: "How energetic has a Pb ion CR to be, when it collides with stationary Pb, to match the energy of LHC`s Pb-Pb collision?" - and find out the corresponding energies. "
 
It's bollocks for much the same reason that the total energy of a match flame, although more concentrated, is much less than the total energy of sunlight shining through the windows of the floor of an average office building.

Even at the energies you quote, two colliding lead nuclei simply can't produce an energy density that anyone needs to worry about. The collisions are really small events.
 
arfa brane said:
It's bollocks for much the same reason that the total energy of a match flame, although more concentrated, is much less than the total energy of sunlight shining through the windows of the floor of an average office building.

Even at the energies you quote, two colliding lead nuclei simply can't produce an energy density that anyone needs to worry about. The collisions are really small events.
Click to expand...


How so?

Proton - Proton energies released max out at 14 Tev - And that has many concerns with regards to mBH and Vacuum Bubbles.

Pb - Pb - Mathematically and self admitted by them reaches over 1000 TeV - How is this not more concerning?
 
Look, the anti-science nutjobs doomsaying about the LHC are idiots. Ignore their BS and listen to what REAL scientists have to say. This goes for the LCH, global warming, 9/11, vaccines, and every other crackpot conspiracy theory out there.
 
Daecon said:
Look, the anti-science nutjobs doomsaying about the LHC are idiots. Ignore their BS and listen to what REAL scientists have to say. This goes for the LCH, global warming, 9/11, vaccines, and every other crackpot conspiracy theory out there.
Click to expand...

I agree. This is purely CERNS OWN WORDS. If someone could just explain this to me, I would appreciate it:

"Proton - Proton energies released max out at 14 Tev - And that has many concerns with regards to mBH and Vacuum Bubbles.

Pb - Pb - Mathematically and self admitted by them reaches over 1000 TeV - How is this not more concerning?"
 
OnlyMe said:
While they may not involve Pb-Pb collisions, anything we can produce at the LHC falls far short of what can and does happen in nature.
Click to expand...

If they do not happen in nature Pb - Pb at that high of energy, how can their CR analogous relationship be considered safe. What makes them so special that they do not occur in nature and we desperately want to recreate them? Why do Fear Mongers especially come after this sort of collision?
 
hahnaz said:
Center of Mass Energies in these pb- pb collisions according to these skeptics are significantly higher than ever being seen in nature
Click to expand...
During the explosion of a supernova, the particle flux is sufficient to create all the heavy elements found in the universe (including uranium.) Just before the explosion the core reaches temperatures in the vicinity of 5GK (five gigakelvin.) The energy of the explosion is sufficient to accelerate the outer parts of the star - where heavy elements including uranium are forming via neutron capture - to over 10% of the speed of light within seconds. Some of these elements, of course, collide.

So no, I don't think that the LHC can generate significantly higher energies than that.
 
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