Las Vegas Shooting

Discussion in 'World Events' started by Kittamaru, Oct 2, 2017.

  1. Randwolf Ignorance killed the cat Valued Senior Member

    It's easy - as you said, "low hanging fruit". The most obvious being restrictions on high capacity magazines, bump stocks and the like. There is precedent in regulating "machine guns" (now overturned) and even political will - if you believe the polls. OTOH, there are the extremely large contributions to electoral funds of pols that "cooperate" with the gun lobby arms dealers.

    Or, considering the political turn of the last few years: "Oh my, nothing can be done..."
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  3. parmalee peripatetic artisan Valued Senior Member

    Don't forget all the obligatory calls for "thoughts and prayers," in lieu of any meaningful discussion or action.
    And we'll hear the phrase "wake up call" ad nauseam 'til it's lost any and all semblance of meaning, if it hasn't already.

    Pretty much.

    And they'll remind us that "they're trying to take away our guns" or "ban guns altogether" without ever bothering to cite who specifically is trying to take away our guns or ban guns altogether--in fact, we've already seen a bit of that within this thread .
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  5. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    I really don't want to answer that question. The answer is at once obvious and uncertain. That is to say, I do not wish to enumerate such a terrible cost, yet I am also uncertain that would do anything but harden their fanaticism.

    It is one thing to say that not all of them are utterly lost in fancy, but those who aren't probably should stop throwing in for common cause with delusion.

    But we can also consider↑ what the musician had to say, because he got close enough: The legally-possessed and licensed firearms among band and crew were, under fire, useless. And having time to scribble his last words? It reads like a completely bullshit line, but that's the thing. We've heard the guys who have been to war tell us what two minutes under fire feels like. Nine minutes? Yeah, that'll leave a mark. And, you know, was it Kutcher who threw in from afar? (I'm uncertain what his shift on Amendment II actually means, but there is also that.)

    But, to revisit the point:

    • Sometime down the line I will acknowledge the point that once again it is only when these issues get close enough—Keeter literally uses the word "proximity" to make the point. Then again, when it's the imminent death of a shooting rampage, okay, you know, that's a bit different than what we usually complain about, like why Sen. Portman couldn't have recognized the problem with his attitudes toward homosexuals before his son had to make a difficult stand, or why Nancy Reagan couldn't have recognized the need for certain research before it was her husband who was dying ....​

    I think we know what it takes, or will take, for many, and in that measure what will also fail for at least as many. We are dealing with a particular degree and manner of fanaticism.

    And it's also just really unpleasant to think about. It's like other manners of fanaticism; other people need to suffer for them, and that just sucks. And the only thing that ever really stops them is if that suffering strikes too close. We saw it in the Gay Fray; we see it in medical research; we hear it from former antivax; &c., ad nauseam.

    The bit with the Republican clamoring for abortion during a pregnancy scare would be funny, except, well, you know, I admit I have no idea if abortion is ever funny; I've just never witnessed women during such moments that it is.

    (And, besides, what's the joke? What if men had abortions? Yeah, we'd make it a competition, and instead of D&X, we'd just tell them to cut and then we'll shotgun what's left of the little fucker to see who can pitch the farthest on egress. Fetal shotgun sharting. Just how the hell is that funny?)​

    And it's one of those times when religion won't help. As much as I would love to rap my knuckles gently on their crania and singsong remind that God's will is as God's will does, and that the Lord works in mysterious ways, I'm an American, and conservative Christians decided they knew better than God decades ago, so, yeah, whatever, something about futility.

    Oh, right. Yeah ... er ... I'm not certain what to say or even think about that range of outcome. We know what it takes, but, you know, fuck all, if we can get out of this without society going so far to hell, I'd really rather.

    Then again, that part means ignoring the hardliners, and we have to remember, these are people who would purport to enforce themselves with the guns they possess and carry. So, yeah, we could always try that: Ignore them and have a responsible discussion at least until they start shooting in order to get everyone's attention.

    But, yeah, I don't really have much for a plan on what comes after that.
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  7. Bells Staff Member

    A few things..

    I never said that black powder was not dangerous. Although if your video demonstration is any indication, blowing a hole into a side of a tree trunk would still have caused less damage than one man with that many guns from a high vantage point.
    Who said it was?

    Well, this is escalating fast..

    Are you alright?

    You seem somewhat flustered and, well, irrational.

    Considering I have not said anything about your political leanings, or your district (I don't even know where you live, State or otherwise), so I don't exactly understand what you are on about.

    Or is this a rant because you have something to get off your chest?

    That guns should be regulated? Well, I live in a country where such laws are in place and do you know what happened to mass shooting events in said country? They went down to 0. Immediately.

    But no, let's talk about your logic, shall we?

    Or lack-there-of...

    Wait, what?

    The irony is that you accused me of being hysterical and in the same sentence, declared that I taught people how to kill others and to use racial prejudice to get away with it..

    No no, please, call me hysterical some more. Because this one is delish.

    Tell me something, Stumpy, you are aware that Tiassa and I are two different people, yes?

    I thought my problem is that my 'hate against the gun is so strong'..?

    And yet, it is the facility with which one can obtain said weapon that makes that violence so much easier. But we'll just ignore that, won't we?

    You really don't know how to link, do you?

    Then have at it! Why are avid 2nd Amendment supporters even against the current laws that are in place?

    Reading and comprehension are a problem for you, aren't they?

    And it is interesting that in a thread about a white dude who went on a rampage and murdered dozens of people and injured hundreds of others, you are whining about your lack of comprehension about a discussion that took place months ago, about people who kill black people just keep getting away with it.

    Are you attempting to deflect?

    You are an idiot.

    We discussed and brought up exactly what happens and is widely reported and recognised, has been studied repeatedly by various institutions and we supported our arguments with such articles, links and expert opinions. And you saw that as instructions? You'd have to be a pretty twisted or dumbarse individual to get that out of it. Talk about acts of desperation because you couldn't keep up with the conversation.
    Kittamaru and pjdude1219 like this.
  8. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    Is it oppressive to expect that it would make any difference if he did?
  9. birch Valued Senior Member

    the problem is people see shooting as a sport/hobby even though it's deadly. that's why you have games like counterstrike. it appeals to the primal predatory nature of target practice/hunting as well as makes some feel more formidable or less vulnerable with armament for defensive measures. it is most effective form of personal weaponry and that is why it's so popular. these are the reasons why banning guns has much resistance.

    there is a duality that is at a tug of war here and that is the need for protection balanced against the misuse of it as predation against others. tough call. the solution could be strict laws against access to heavy artillery. that would make sense for the general public as no one needs that much firepower for personal self-defense anyways which makes a legitimate point.

    the psychology behind the right to bear arms is one that didn't extend to women and unfortunately there is a contradiction also when you have laws to protect people by disempowering them which thereby also increases easy victimization, just not by gun deaths. people easily take advantage of knowing you have no weapons as well as afraid or hesitant to defend yourself because of protection of another's life etc. there is a problem with rendering vulnerable by castrating people of weapons for self-defense on the one hand but it can be unbalanced to the other extreme as this incident where there is no real call for or need of over-the-top weaponry as a regular citizen.
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2017
  10. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    After watching the local news about it all tonight and reading this thread... it seems to me that the best way to move forward is to launch a class action against the NRA that forces them to take some collective responsibility for the atrocities it's pro gun policies condone and are complicit in.
    If threatened with a class action every time there is a mass shooting perhaps they may actually take some responsibility and change things so there are less of them. Due to the strength, and influence of the gun lobby it is not up to government to provide solutions, it is up to the NRA and affiliates to do so.

    The questions that Need to be addressed:
    How is the NRA working towards preventing further mass shootings?
    What strategies do they have in place and intend to put in place to minimize the national body bag count?

    It is not up to Congress, Senate or even the POTUS to solve this issue. It is up to the NRA. IMO

    ** an individual with over 23 weapons at the scene plus countless others elsewhere, should be on a forensic data base somewhere... why isn't he?
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2017
  11. Bells Staff Member

    On level 32, an officer said Paddock “shot down the hallway and hit a security guard.” On the ground, the dispatcher advises police to lock their cars as “citizens are trying to grab shotguns.”

    “I need some more units here I’m being overtaken by citizens trying to take patrol cars,” one officer said. Another advises against travelling to a certain part of the festival ground.

    Good grief!

    I try to wrap my head around the fact that police had to pause in that kind of situation, to lock their cars because the citizens were trying to grab their shotguns..
  12. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

    Not to mention shotguns don't have the range to shoot back at the 32nd floor. (Hypotenuse distance anyone?)

    I think the people in the crowd were working on the "more guns always make things better" rule.
  13. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

  14. sculptor Valued Senior Member

  15. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

    I'd have to check the War of 1812 Army Documentary series, and I don't have them here.
  16. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

    yes there are between 10 and 20 miniguns that are legal for civilians to own in the us
  17. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

    And if you buy the ammo you can shoot a car in half with a Ma Deuce.
  18. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    The whiskey rebellion comes to mind------
  19. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

    I ignore that one, they spell "whisky" wrong.
  20. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Gotta give them credit: Although they were Scotch Irish - Protestants all, none of this toe-tippy Hibernian curlycue - that does not cover for their employment of maize, and they honorably recognized the fact. They were honest marketers of bourbon - whiskey, not the good stuff.
  21. river

    One has to ask , what is impetus for this insanity ?
  22. gmilam Valued Senior Member

    They used what was readily available.
  23. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

    That would be been pine cones and squirrels.

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