Jupiter or Peter the Jew? Were they one and the same?

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M*W: It has been said that Jupiter was the godliest of the Roman gods. OTOH, Peter the Jew has been acknowledged as the firstmost and supreme leader of the RCC. Could they be one and the same character?

But are they characters of mythology or history?

In more recent research, Jesus Christ, himself, is purported to be one and the same with Julius Caesar. Are they characters of mythology or history?

Did Jesus and Julius exist or were they created as fictional characters of their day?

Caesar wore a laurel wreath around his holy head, and Jesus wore a crown of thorns. Is there a connection to this symbolism?

Julius Caesar began his career in Gallia, and Jesus began his career in Galilee. Is this too close for comfort for some of you?

Both Julius Caesar and Jesus H. Christ crossed a fateful river -- Julius crossed the Rubicon, and Jesus crossed the Jordan. Does anyone see these similarities?

Julius Caesar was the Holy Roman Emperor, and Jesus was the founder of Christianity. Julius was born of the Goddess Venus, and Jesus was born of the Virgin Miriam. Virgin births have occurred many times in mythology. Why are these "virgin births" significant?

Both Julius Caesar and Jesus H. Christ arrived at their respective capitol cities (Rome and Jerusalem) where both approached their passions. Are they one and the same?

Interestingly, both Julius Caesar and Jesus H. Christ have special relationships with one famous woman. Julius Caesar and Cleopatra were a hot item as were Jesus Christ and Miriam of Magdala. Could history and literature both be wrong?

Julius Caesar and Jesus H. Christos both have a traitor. Julius Caesar has Brutus and Jesus H. Christ has his Judas. Barabbas stands in for Jesus. Was Barabbas actually Jesus?

Both have been accused of claiming themselves "king." One is king of the Romans, and the other is king of the Jews as indicated by the plaque "INRI." That was a farce, but did they exist or were they as fictional as literature can be?

Both were killed ON THE SAME RESPECTIVE DATES OF THE YEAR! Julius Caesar dies on the Ides (15th) of March, and Jesus H. Christ dies on the 15th of the month of Nisan. That's just too coincidentary for me!

Both Julius Caesar and Jesus H. Christ become deified saviors of their people after their consecutive deaths. Both are said to have performed miracles. Are these contradictions worthless, or do they appear to have an eerie connection?

From Jesus Was Caesar: On the Julian Origin of Christianity -- An Investigative Report, by Francesco Carotta, ASPEKT 2005, I offer these comparisons:

Julius Caesar:Jesus
Pompeius:John the Baptist
Marc Antony

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eter (Jupiter)
Cleopatra:Mary Magdalen
Nicomedes:Nicodemus
Brutus:Judas
Brutus:Barabbas
Lepidus

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ilate
Octavianus (Augustus):John
Marius (Iulia/Martha):Lazarus
Maurias:Martha
Senate:Sanhedrin
Gaul:Galilee
Rubicon:Jordan
Corfinium:Caphernaum
Rome:Jerusalem
Ionia:Judea

Is it only me, or do others see these contradictions13?

The gospels are really accounts of the war with the Jews. Mark is Marcus Antonius, Luke is Lucian (or Lucifer), Matthias is Ma'at, and John is considered to be Mary Magdalen.

Jesus is just another title/name for Gaius Iulius.

Flavius Josephus was commissioned to write about the Wars of the Jews. However, the wars of the Jews became the gospels of Jesus H. Christ. In other words, there is no true gospel. The Jews had wars. The Romans had wars. We must render into Caesar what is rightfully his, and we must take from the annals of history what does not belong to Jesus H. Christ.

Julius Caesar and Jesus H. Christ were one and the same. The gospels are nothing but the story of the wars of Julilus Caesar. There is no god of anything. How lucky can an atheist be?????

 

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Jew Peter is Jupiter.. WOW.

Here is my 2 cents.

"Jew Deus Is Carrot" became Judas Iscariot. That is, God of Jews is carrot. Carrot grows below earth level. It is taken above the surface when the time is ripe. Jesus resurrected & came out of tomb like carrot. Jesus and Judas Iscariot are one and the same.

I will get back whenever i get some flash discoveries.

 

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No......... apart from they both start with the letters JC

Yes

But the time lines are spectacularly adrift;

• Julius Caesar died about 45BC
• The first christians were widely reported to be in Rome by 50AD
• The jewish / roman war 66-73AD
• Flavius Josephus wrote about the Jewish / roman war in AD75
• The emperor at time of jewish / roman war was Vespasian
• The first Gospels date from about 100AD

Flavius Josephus’s writings cannot be the source of the Jesus Christ stories as there were christians in Rome before Flavius Josephus wrote anything. Also Caesar was not the main antagonist in the stories of the Rome / jew war, whereas Jesus is the main antagonist in the gospels.

Francesco Carotta says that the change from Julius to Jesus came by;
“This mutation and delocalization came about by a long process of copying, mistranslating, misinterpreting, adaptation and redaction in a different cultural context”
But only 25 years between Flavius’s writing and the first gospel is certainly not long enough for this to happen. Also as Flavius was a jew and wrote in Hebrew and greek and the first gospels were also in Hebrew and greek, it seems hard to see how a translation problem could have occurred, especially one in which all the characters, places and events were changed????

How lucky can an atheist be? - possibly very lucky.

How lucky can an atheist be, compulsively obsessed with proving Jesus did not historically exist? – not very lucky at all.

 

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You know...
They say that when you pull a carrot from the ground it emits a high pitched sound akin to a cry.
The carrots are crying for their God.

Everyone, of course, knows that the Devil is undergound...
People refer to Judas Iscariot as the traitor, the one who turned against his God, on the cross Jesus asked why his father forsook him.

Lucifer was a fallen angel who stood againt God and was cast out of Heaven.

Bear with me, I'm going somewhere with this...

What happens when your son is rebelling and standing up against you and exerting his independence?
You kick him out of the house.

Jesus was God's trouble-making, rebellious teenager son who was kicked out of heaven and sent to earth (he was 13 when he disappeared, right?).
Jesus decided, "Screw Dad. I'm going to build my own house (Hades - House... is it a coincidence they sound similar?) and have my own followers."
He starts to gather followers to join him in his own eternal house party in the afterlife.
He overturns Mosaic law - tells people they don't have to be kosher - tells people, "My dad's way is the old way. My way is the new way. Fuck the old generation and old way of doing things." Jesus WAS a hippie, after all.
Of course, just like our more modern hippie idealists and rebels against status quo, he gets in way over his head.
They kill him and an earthquake opens the ground (the door to his house, of course).

Jesus is the Devil.
everneo, you're brilliant!
You have figured out the Bible code.
Anton LaVey is going to be SOOOO bummed that he's been praising Jesus all this time.

 

But does historical proof exist( outside the bible of course) that Jesus did exist ?

 

Ancestor worship was big, still often is, Jupiter was Iapeter, Iafeth, Japheth, a son of Noah, known as Japeti in ancient India, and Iafeth/Seskef in northern European lore.

 

Thank you, thank you, but no thanks, the honor goes to you for establishing that Jesus is Devil. The mysterious link between cleo and mary maggie is still elusive. I guess mark anotony (mars) alias peter (jupiter) is the key. Venus!!! cleo ? magadalen ??? circling around the son (sun). i need to go out of solar system now..

 

Actually if Jesus Christ = Julius Caesar and Barabbas = Jesus Christ
Then it means that
Barabbass must really be Julius Caear.

Which means that the bible is a secret code to tell us that Julius Caesar did not really die in Rome but that he was secretly set free....

He then reappeared 50 years later in the desert of Judea, looking dazed and bewildered and claiming to be the son of God....

Where he was later tried by Pontius Pilate……………….. hang on is this getting circular

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Medicine Woman:

I like you and your views are interesting, but this is terribly fallacious. Allow me to show you why.

Jesus was crowned with a crown of thorns in mockery of the Roman tradition - not in emulation. The soldiers were basically saying, "Ha ha, here is the king of the Jews! Oh, your majesty, please take your crown!"

It isn't Gallia. It is Gaul. Gaul and Galilee are historically two different areas with no etymological connection. Gaul takes its name from the Celtic Gauls. Galilee is a Jewish area. Moreover, Caesar did not begin his career in Gaul - he began his military career. He was a rhetorician and a prominent member of a well-to-do patrician family.

For utterly different reasons. The Rubicon marked the point where a Roman legion could not go. Jesus did not cross the Jordan as a final resolution.

The Holy Roman Empire did not exist until Charlemagne in 700 AD. Moreover, he was never emperor. Augustus Caesar was the first emperor of Rome.

Jesus was not born of the Goddess Venus. His ancestor was Aeneas who was the son of Venus.

There was no virgin birth in the Caesar myth. No Olympian ever had a true virgin birth.

Capitals are important in all histories.

Julius Caesar had three wives. Jesus' relationship with Mary Magdalene was hardly the equivalent of siring a bastard with the Egyptian queen.

Brutus didn't betray Jesus. The entire senate did. Brutus was apart of the senate. He didn't sell out Caesar. Caesar came to the senate and was stabbed to death.

We have the written word of Julius Caesar and the testimony of dozens of contemporaries.

Nisan is the first month - not the third. Moreover, the Romans used a solar calendar - the Jews a lunar.

Julius Caesar was never worshipped as a saviour, nor was he ever said to have performed any miracle whatsoever. What information do you have for this? He was deified, but only in a loose, Imperial cult sense. He was not held to be a son of God.

Also, you are aware that the "H." is not a proper part of Jesus, yes?

 

Ahh...You agree that Jesus is Julius.

You cannot salvage Brutus in the name of Republic. You seem to be the other Plutarch's fan. Neither did Plutarch (Pluto) suceed in getting Brutus off the hook. Dante clubbed Brutus and Judas Iscariot together and condemned them to be the eternal feeders for the hellfire at the lowest level. Brutus and Judas are still in Hell (Helio - Sun - Son). Julius, Jesus, Brutus and Judas are all one and the same.

M*W :

Kingdom of Julius aka Jesus was imminent. Both were killed before becoming kings. Julius was stabbed by many knives. Jesus was by many nails. Jesus is Julius. If not, then Christ is Caesar. Never give up..

 

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M*W: No proof of the historical Jesus has been found
intra- or extra-biblically.

 

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M*W: "Barabbas" is just another name (actually a title) for Jesus in Aramaic. Bar (son of) Abbas (father) of "Son of the father." Although he is mentioned as the one Pilate let go, I believe him to be one and the same with Jesus' character in that story.

Julius Caesar was not "Barabbas," although he thought of himself as divine (a self-granted affectation).

I do agree with you somewhat that the bible is a type of secret code. However, I don't believe it started out that way. It appears to be coded to us now from all the misinterpretations and mistranslations. I believe it started out as popular literature of the day but was nowhere near being divinely inspired by a higher power.

I cannot say with any proof that Julius Caesar and Jesus Christ were actually one and the same, but there are many striking coincidential parallels to their stories. I believe one was patterned after the other.

I believe Julius Caesar was the prototype for the fictional character of Jesus Christ. The names were changed to create new literature.

 

Medicine Woman:

If you might, could you reply to the points I made against your theories?

Everneo:

Whoops, Freudian slip. I had meant "Brutus did not betray Julius".

 

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M*W: I had a well-referenced reply almost completed, but it disappeared from my computer. I'll try to prepare another reply.

M*W: Thank you for your kind comment.

M*W: Yes, I was always under the impression that the crown of thorns was written as a mockery. Also, the "INRI" nailed to the cross was also a mockery.

M*W: Gallia is the Latin name for Gaul. Allow me cite from the second reference above:

"The rise of Caesar begins in Gaul, that of Jesus in Galilee. Caesar, coming from Gallia (Gaul), crosses the Rubicon and arrives in Corfinium; Jesus, coming from Galilaea (Galilee), crosses the Jordon and arrives in Capernaum (also Caphernaum). Gallia and Galilee are the respective neighboring countries in the north. Both have to cross boundary rivers: the Rubicon separated Gallia from Italia, whereas the Jordan actually separated Galilee from Decapolis and the Gaulanitis, but the Evangelists write as if Judaea were located immediately on the other side of the river. Corfinium and Capernaum respectively are the first cities in which they arrive. The stormy seas that are crossed by Caesar and Jesus also act as borders: across the Ionian Sea lies Ionia, as Greece was and is called in the Orient; across the Sea of Galilee again lie Decapolis and the Gaulanitis, but for the Evangelist it is again Judaea."

M*W: I am not understanding what you mean by "final resolution."

From Wikipedia:

"Charlemagne (Charles the Great;[1] from Latin, Carolus Magnus[2]; 742 or 747 – 28 January 814) was the King of the Franks (768–814) who conquered Italy and took the Iron Crown of Lombardy in 774 and, on a visit to Rome in 800 AD, was crowned imperator Romanorum ("Emperor of the Romans") by Pope Leo III on Christmas Day, presaging the revival of the Roman imperial tradition in the West in the form of the Holy Roman Empire."

M*W: Obviously not, but his own mother Miriam was said to have been a temple prostitute (another word that didn't mean then what it does today).

I do find your comparison of Jesus to Aeneas interesting! That could be a whole new comparitive endeavor! Not surprisingly, many characters of myth and history show comparisons in the literature. There are no more than a few personality types, for example, and the Greek dramas reflect those personality types.

M*W:

Capitals are important in all histories.

Julius Caesar had three wives. Jesus' relationship with Mary Magdalene was hardly the equivalent of siring a bastard with the Egyptian queen.

M*W: Marcus Brutus is compared to Barabbas in the second reference as follows:

"The difference between Brutus and Barabbas is somewhat greater, but is not unbridgeable: Comparing the semantically relevant sound alone--Barabbas is a semitic name and in those languages only the consonants and consonanced vocals are of semantic relevance--we have BRVT versus BRAB. Moreover the meaning of Barabbas is understood to be "Bar-Abbas', 'son of the father', and when Caesar was being stabbed he exclaimed to Brutus: 'You too, my son?' So the term 'son of the father' is appropriate for Brutus."

M*W: That may be true, but how valid is it? Julius Caesar may have come from a prestigious Roman family, but did he write anything himself, or was everything written by those who knew him or by scribes? I'm asking this, because I don't presently know.

M*W: I don't believe I stated that the month of Nisan was the third month. The comparison was that the murders of both Caesar and Jesus occured on the 15th day of the respective months.

From Wikipedia:

Nisan (Hebrew: נִיסָן, Standard Nisan Tiberian Nîsān ; from Akkadian nisānu, from Sumerian nisag "First fruits") is the first month of the civil year and the seventh month (eighth, in leap year) of the ecclesiastical year on the Hebrew calendar. The name of the month is Babylonian; in the Tanakh it is called Aviv, meaning spring. It is a spring month of 30 days. Nisan usually falls out in March–April on the Gregorian calendar.

In some Christian traditions it is believed Jesus' death occurred at 3:00 pm (i.e., the ninth canonical hour from sunrise) on the afternoon of the 14th of Nisan, the eve of Passover, and the Last Supper was a pre-Passover Seder held the previous evening. (See Quartodecimanism for more information.)

M*W: From the second reference, both Julius and Jesus are deified posthumously as Divus Iulius and as Jesus Christ.

"However, in his funeral oration for Caesar, Antonius depicted all of Caesar's many great achievements as miracles. These miracles of Caesar included the survival of a storm at sea and even the raising of the dead: for the people took it to be a miracle that Caesar brought the honors of Marius 'back from Hades into the city' after many long years of Sulla's dictatorship."

M*W: Of course I do, but Jesus was not an historical person but a myth. Good point, though. I shall never write his name as Jesus H. Christ again!

 

Medicine Woman:

Yes, in essence the entire performance was a mocking of Jesus.

I'll concede the Gaul/Gallia point. Evidently, I forgot my Latin. Not withstanding, Gallia and Galilee are only superficially similar. The names hold no etymological connection.

Also, at what point did Caesar cross a "stormy sea"?

You will also note that "Judea" - the Roman pronvince - encapsulated Galilee.

"Iacta alea est". "The die is cast". Thus said Caesar when he cross the Rubicon. This was essentially the final thing. Once Caesar did this, he could not go back. Jesus did not cross the Jordan in such a manner.

Precisely my point.

What tradition claims that Mary was a temple prostitute? Neither the Christian, nor Judeaic (which claims Pantera, a Roman legionaire, was the rape-father of Jesus).

What do you find the similarities between Aeneas and Jesus to be?

Do you not think this is a bit of a stretch? Going from "Barabbas" to "And you, my son?"

He wrote things himself, actually. He is one of the finest of the classical literary figures. He also had formal education in public speech at Rhodes.

At -most-, he would have dictated to a slave. At most. But we know certainly that Caesar could read and write in Latin and Greek and we know he was educated at Rhodes.

Yes, but many important dates have happened on the 15th of the month. As on the 2nd...the 23rd...et cetera, et cetera.

The similarity of 15-15 is not enough to warrant a connection. This is different from say, Jesus and Mithra born on the 25th of December.

This is from Wikipedia? Or from another source?

Moreover, the usage of funeral pretensions does not mean a common belief. To ask J. Q. (re)Public in Rome whether or not Julius Caesar was known for raising the dead, I'd hardly imagine they'd answer positively.

Good. Just thought you might have been legitimately confused, as you used it several times over.

 

On the etymological point, Romans had a history of making false etymologies. Virgil's Aeneid, for instance, created a false etymology to explain the origin's of the Romans.

 

Roman:

Roma = Amor = Venus?

 

Yeah, that was one of them. It's been awhile since I've done any classical reading, but if I recall correctly, the Greeks did the same thing.

It seemed a fairly common thing to do in classic times. If I rcall correctly, (false) etymology was also used to reinforce the agruments of Roman rhetoricians.

 

M*W: The climate wasn't the comparison. The comparison was about the rivers that were crossed. Jesus crossed the Jordan and Julius crossed the Rubicon. However, from my second reference Carotta states the following:

"A year after crossing the Rubicon and besieging Corfinium, Caesar crossed the turbulent Ionian Sea in winter with just a few ships, and landed near the Ceraunic Cliffs where he dared the unbelievable: even though outnumbered, from the mountains he laid siege to all the troops of Pompeius, who controlled the coast.

M*W: From Wikipedia:

"In 6 AD Judea became part of a larger Roman province, called Iudaea, which was formed by combining Judea, Samaria, and Idumea. It did not include Galilee, Gaulanitis (the Golan), nor Peraea or the Decapolis."

M*W: I think this is moot. They each crossed a river in inclement weather. However, when replying to your point, I realized that Jesus was said to have died in 33 AD and Julius died in 44 AD. Pretty weird!

M*W: A play on words about Pantera -- doesn't that mean like "many lands?" Then there was the god Pan and doesn't "tera" or "terra" mean Earth. Could Pantera be a name for the "god of the earth?" I don't believe Jesus existed, so I don't believe he had a real or divine father.

For more information on temple prostitutes, again, not to be confused with common street walkers, the following references are available.

The Historical Mary: Revealing the Pagan Identity of the Virgin Mother, by Michael Jordan (publisher and year unknown) explains the use of the term temple prostitute.

Qualls-Corbett, Nancy. With a foreword by Marion Woodman. The Sacred Prostitute: Eternal Aspects of the Feminine. Toronto: Inner City Books 1998.

Pomeroy, Sarah B. Goddesses, Whores, Wives and Slaves: Women in Classical Antiquity. New York: Schocken Books, 1975.

Roberts, Nickie. Whores in History: Prostitution in Western Society. London: Harper-Collins, 1993.

Stone, Merlin. Ancient Mirrors of Womanhood: A Treasury of Goddess and Heroine Lore from Around the World. Boston: Beacon Press, 1984.

M*W: The spelling of their names.

M*W: No, I find it a favorable comparison. On the cross, Jesus said "woman behold thy son, John behold thy mother." I won't get into it here that John was a pseudonym for Mary Magdalen.

M*W: Yes, he was a great public speaker.

M*W: I'll agree with you here.

M*W: Agreed.

M*W: Well, after all, it is not my comparison. I'll give credit to Carotta for his research.

Were there not some 16 dying demigod saviors born of virgins on December 25?

M*W: This is quoted from Carotta's book Jesus was Caesar.

M*W: I don't put much faith into the intelligence of John Q. rePublic, even in Italy. When I was in Rome, I did what everybody else was doing (having Espresso).

M*W: I like to give pet names to people, like my new grandson who is 22 days old. I call him "Little Precious." That's because I called his two year-old brother "Precious." Now I call them "Big Precious" and "Little Precious." As soon as the older one is old enough to understand, I'll start calling them "BP" and "LP." But that's just me. I'm their "Nannie."

 

M*W: Excellent association!