Joshua's standstill of the sun, not happening anyw here?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by nebel, Aug 5, 2017.

  1. nebel Registered Senior Member

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    From another forum: On Jupiter and Saturn, the sun possibly slows to a standstill every 10 hours, at noon. At that time , the rotation speed of the equator is met with the opposing velocity of the orbital motion. So: The Sun stood still in Joshua's day, just not in the middle east, but elsewhere in the Solar system. There is nothing new under the sun. funny miracle stories or?
     
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  3. Janus58 Valued Senior Member

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    The Sun does not slow to a standstill as seen from either planet. In fact, it move faster across the sky for each planet than it does on the Earth. For the Earth, the Sun crosses the sky at a rate of 15 degrees/hr. On Jupiter, it crosses at 36.58 degrees/sec and for Saturn, it is 21.75 degrees/hr. The speed at which the Sun moves through the sky is unrelated to the difference between the tangential velocity on the surface and the orbital speed, but is related to the difference in the angular velocity of the planet and the angular orbital velocity.
     
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  5. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    The sun didn't stand still in Joshua's day. Time seemed to stand still during the battle. Everything seemed to be in slow motion to gave the Israelites time to defeat their enemies. The same thing happens in the movies all the time.
     
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  7. nebel Registered Senior Member

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    bob, thank you. if time stood still, or rather nothing moved through time, how come the arms wielding the swords, lances were not frozen in place too? selective time travel? was the speed of the cutting edges not cut to the point of not cutting any more?
    The only way to have the sun stand still, is stop the rotation of the planet, or speed up the sun's image.
    Think of the planet as a wheel on a speeding car. the moment it touches the road it hardly moves. on the pavement, (think of tracks left in the snow). On these planets the "road" matches the speed of the tire, so the "sun" on the road stands still.
    Question : how did the snakes on the ark react to the flood? it left them speechless, have not heard one talking since.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2017
  8. nebel Registered Senior Member

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  9. nebel Registered Senior Member

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    Janus 58, your namesake god has 2 different opposing faces, and so do the gods J & S. The sunny faces of Jupiter, Saturn hold still, the night face of them are fleeting. The fog on Saturn & Jupiter seconded by Janus, the other trinity.
     
  10. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    If the bible were the inerrant word of an omnipotent omniscient god, it would not say the sun stood still. It would say Earth stopped rotating. Then it would tell about people, animals & things being flung across the planet.

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  11. nebel Registered Senior Member

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    You are so right, stranger. Even Gen 1:1 is wrong, The Earth could not have been created in the beginning but much later.
    I am using the bible only as fiction to be commented on. not endorsing, but:
    I will push the analgies further, Ezekiel somewhere speaks of "Eyes on wheel's rims", what would the speed of the ground look like as the wheel rotates , and touches the ground and then? lifts away again. would not the ground at the point of contact be stationary?
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2017
  12. nebel Registered Senior Member

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    The bible is full of funny kids level stories. In Isaiah, is there not a solar shadow reversing on stairs?, could not happen with the sun, but with certain planets that reverse their course as we observe them from Earth. so: Isaiah's proposition would be credible at the time of writing, when most believed that the Sun was just another bigger brighter moving planetary greek = wandering object. Giving bible writers too much credit I guess.
     
  13. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    You are so smart in the present 20 century tell me , where does the sun rises ?
     
  14. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    Keep the word regress in mind. Set a lamp , pass underneath the lamp a cardboard, you will see the shadow in one position as the cardboard ended under the light you will see the shadow in other position . Now , relatively there are two body standing Sun and earth what passes in between are clouds and they move, so the clouds can produce reversing shadow ?
     
  15. nebel Registered Senior Member

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    [/QUOTE]
    timo jin, point well taken, better minds than bible penners have badly dealt with the mechanism behind this apparent east- to-west movement problem. The claim of creator inspired scripture is, that any scientific inaccuracies will destroy credibility. particularly as these writings are supposed to acquire greater importance as we, with scientific insights not available earlier, approach "that day" Insights that should have been obvious to a supposed creator or co-creator proofreader, or inspirer. or?

    re regress: good point! parallax can seem to have distant objects move backwards, but never thought of clouds moving on command as an instrument of prophecy. I assumed the patient used the stairs as a sundial. will look into the context.
     
  16. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    ^^^
    I would be intelligent back then also. How intelligent was god when its inspired inerrant word was written.
    God should have hired me as proofreader.
    Sol does not rise in relation to Earth. Maybe if we were in the center of the Milky Way.

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  17. nebel Registered Senior Member

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    timojin I looked at Isaiah 38:8, and one translation even called it a dial, so these were fixed features producing a daily shadow pattern, probably a staircase rising to the west and being shadowed by a wall on an afternoon sun. no moving cloud would restore sunlight into an already shadowed area, , (the shadow is said to be lifting, so sunlight was restored to the lower steps). This "miracle" has to be classed as a kid's level bible story, fiction, right in with little red riding hood and the talking snake (wolf) . sorry I brought this up in an astronomy context, google Analemma though.
     
  18. nebel Registered Senior Member

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    I looked at James 1:17," with whom [god] there is no variation of the turning [back] of the shadow" , so it must be a cheap trick, like westward moving the coveredof the roofroof, not "godly"
     
  19. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    You know the site you present, it is referred to spiritual darkness and light ,or understanding . So please don't mix oranges and apples, Perhaps your intent is malicious.
     
  20. nebel Registered Senior Member

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    timojin, rather than question motives, why do you not address the motion of the light, the shadow as described in the scriptures? These stories are worthy of discussion, neater still, if we can relate them to measurable phenomena now. Remember , divine inspiration notwithstanding, the bible writers were stuck in a fixed flat earth view, with moving lights, sun, moon. --- Striving for enlightenment can never be malicious, even in cross-disciplines. or?
     
  21. nebel Registered Senior Member

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    timojin, perhaps it has possible malicious connotations for you, I think any enlightenment (pun intended), particularly when done in a tongue in cheek fashion is a great teaching tool. or?
    ps. Much greater minds than mine have used crossovers into the religious realm to drive home a point. : " god has to nudge the planets once in a while"" the lord does not play dice"
     
  22. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    I'm going to remember that one.
     
  23. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    ^^^
    What about the asses?

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