Jordan Peterson

Discussion in 'The Cesspool' started by Seattle, Jan 27, 2018.

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  1. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    But it does set the scene for actual enforcement of the law.
    Yep.
    How much of American society and civilization are you willing to sacrifice to pretend you are belatedly enforcing a law broken by infants twenty years ago?
     
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  3. Vociferous Registered Senior Member

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    And?
    Not an argument.
    Sacrifice? What do you think the punishment should be? The gulag?
    Law broken by parents. Don't be histrionic.
     
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  5. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Like I said - a whole lot of punishing, including most of the school systems and public utilities in the country. And hundreds of major employers. Quite the project.
    Nobody was arguing.
    Up to the courts. Thousands of them.
    So nothing happens to the kids - they're legal?
     
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  7. Vociferous Registered Senior Member

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    School administrators, not systems.
    Can utilities not serve non-citizens?
    Okay. "But they aren't, in this case" was just an opinion.
    Then why did your say "sacrifice"?
    Kids don't have to, themselves, break laws for their status to be illegal.
    Similar to how kids don't have to have legally immigrated for their status to be legal (born here).
     
  8. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Both, of course.
    Depends.
    Seemed like the right word, for significant loss and injury voluntarily suffered.
    Good - that means we could enforce the law simply by making their status legal. The stupid take of "rewarding illegal activity" wouldn't even come up.
     
  9. Vociferous Registered Senior Member

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    Why should a school system pay for what individual administrators did?
    Maybe sanctuary city/state laws?
    Only in states with specific laws.
    The Decatur Utilities company is now one of many in the state that follows the newly signed immigration law which prohibits business with illegal immigrants in the state or its subdivisions.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...taining-electric-gas-water-sewer-service.html
    Then yes, those are violating the law.
    Voluntarily? Significant?
    Again, what do you imagine the penalties would be?
    Who would volunteer for "significant loss and injury"?
    No, illegal status does not magically become legal because the person did not originally break the law. Like trespassing, it is the current state that matters.
    So we could grant deferred action until adulthood, where they are then responsible for their continued violation.

    If someone forced you, at gun point, to rape someone, you would have a good legal defense. But if you continued to rape someone, after the threat was over, you would be wholly guilty of rape.
    You weren't culpable for the initial illegal activity, but you were for the continued activity.
     
  10. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Courts will decide.
    Again - that gets hashed out in court.
    Court decisions. Thousands of them.
    Anyone who tried to enforce these laws now, thirty years after they were ignored wholesale by everyone involved, thereby creating this mess.
    We would use legislation, not magic.
    So not enforce the law, until it's most wasteful and expensive to do so. A plan!
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2018
  11. Vociferous Registered Senior Member

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    Yep.
    Yep.
    Yep, just like the emoluments clause.
    Those enforcing would be guilt too?
    You cannot enforce a law by changing it. You'd be enforcing a different law.
    Is it cheaper to deport kids?
     
  12. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    With that change, the law - which had not been broken by activity, remember, but was simply a matter of status, according to you - would be fully enforced - immediately and at almost no cost.
    Before you have raised and educated them? Sure. Save tens of thousands of dollars per kid. Plus, they're easier to catch.
     
  13. Vociferous Registered Senior Member

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    Illegal status is a matter of continued activity. Staying in a country illegally is a continued violation of the law.
    Just because someone abducts you and puts you in a restricted area does not mean you are innocent of trespassing if you then voluntarily stay there.
    Only your new law would be enforced. The violators of the old law would effectively get amnesty.
    You want to deport kids? I thought you wanted to punish the schools for admitting them?
     
  14. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    The new law would be enforced. The old law never was. So the situation has changed from non-enforcement to enforcement of the law. Nobody gets amnesty - the law is changed.
    That is the situation with every change in the law. When you raise the speed limit, the uncaught violators of the old one don't get amnesty - they just didn't get caught, and now they're legal.
     
  15. Vociferous Registered Senior Member

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    Wish it away?

    The law change itself would effectively be amnesty. Just like decriminalizing marijuana is amnesty for pot smokers, and in some states amnesty for past violations, which does make sense.
     
  16. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    That's not either.
     
  17. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

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    Found him through YouTube when he was the center of some contentious issues. However, listening to his lectures about human psychology is much more interesting. I spent a whole night watching his videos. If he were local, I would attend his events.

     
  18. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    Sounds good.
     
  19. Vociferous Registered Senior Member

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    Good luck.
     
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