# Israeli/Hamas disregard for human life.

Discussion in 'World Events' started by StrawDog, Feb 5, 2009.

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1. ### copernicus66BannedBanned

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LOL. Still waiting...

3. ### BellsStaff Member

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Who is being accused here? You speak of "wild accusations", but against whom?

No one has been named. What it does highlight is the complete lack of disregard that the IDF allows many its soldiers to have when it comes to civilian lives. There have been countless reports of such abuses, not just from the Palestinians but from human rights observers who were there at the time.

So again, what do these soldiers have to gain or lose? Are they accusations of mere observations to other soldiers about what they can expect? Don't you get it yet Baron? In war, we are mere savages with vendettas. What those soldiers spoke is not unknown. It is just another pile of crap to add to the pile.

5. ### fedr8081100101Valued Senior Member

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Thats a hilarious article you quoted SAM, because it explicatly claims that the injured 7 year old, carried out single handedly an attack on a Palestinian girl school. What did he do throw a pebble at it?

And he was handed a 15 year jail sentance in 2002, if they are telling the truth than why the fuck is he on the streets? Oh yeah, theyre just saying all of this Bull s*** for publicity.

7. ### BellsStaff Member

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What?

Why do they need to "condemn" it? Do you come out and condemn every single crime committed by white Westerners? Looking through your post history, my guess the answer to that would be a no.

That's the thing. No one would expect you to come out and condemn every murder committed by a white Westerner.

So why is there this expectation that Muslims must all condemn every single crime committed by another Muslim half a world away? Why do we hold Muslims to that standard but not ourselves?

8. ### S.A.M.uniquely dreadfulValued Senior Member

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Is it a good idea to publicly flaunt your poor reading skills like that?

9. ### Baron MaxRegistered Senior Member

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I thought you were an attorney, Bells? Am I wrong?

Baron Max

10. ### copernicus66BannedBanned

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Perhaps the better question to ask is: Why do they feel the need to absolve this man of all guilt? Why, whenever a Muslim commits a crime or atrocity, there are always apologists like S.A.M, Diamond and Arsalan to mitigate the atrocity and shift most/all culpability back onto the West?

Look upon pan-Islamism and tremble, Bells.

11. ### Baron MaxRegistered Senior Member

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Actually, Bells, we do! And we see it here on sciforums every damned day of the week. Or haven't you been reading much?

Baron Max

12. ### S.A.M.uniquely dreadfulValued Senior Member

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Okay.

Due process.

Lets see some evidence that a Palestinian did it.

13. ### copernicus66BannedBanned

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It's almost like Bell's brain completely switches off whenever she reads the shit posted by the liberals and Muslim apologists. White guilt, Western guilt, male guilt, all stink up this liberal shithole.

14. ### aaaRegistered Senior Member

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Bat Ayin settlement did not replace any population nor has it used any kind of force against Palestinians, still you attempt to justify this terrible attack.
I'm sure the Palestinians are celebrating right now with songs and candies for what is appeared to be "a great victory against the occupation".

15. ### copernicus66BannedBanned

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Wait, weren't you earlier saying that the Palestinian who did 'it' was probably batshit insane? Now you're questioning his existence? Boyo, just when I thought your credibility couldn't plummet any further...

16. ### S.A.M.uniquely dreadfulValued Senior Member

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??? Bat Ayin is made up of 1000 settlers in the West Bank. Settlers = immigrant population, all Jews. It was established in 1989. They block Palestinians from coming there and are known to attack girls schools.

I'm happy to see any evidence of any Palestinian involvement in this extremist settler society's doings and goings on.

17. ### fedr8081100101Valued Senior Member

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Im sorry was that an insult? Ive heard far better ones from summer camps.

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Prove it

19. ### Buffalo RoamRegistered Senior Member

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And exactly what does that have to do with the Ax Murderers actions?

Again and again you try to is a irrelevant incident to justify murderous, barbarous, terrorist actions.

You want everything to be a morally relevant situation, so guess what, the Israelis are morally justified under your sense of reciprocal action based on what you think justice is.

Arabs have murdered Israeli children, women, men, with terrorist acts, and just plane murder for nothing more than the fact that they are Jews.

So yes, under your morally relative world, the Israelis are justified in their action.

Were does this attitude come from in Islam?

In a nut shell to Quote:

Dr. Fahd Al-Usaymi,

Muslims should fear God in their Muslim brothers and train them... for honesty and fear of God are, originally, in the Muslim, contrary to the infidel (the Christian) who, originally, is dishonest and does not fear God

I would say it come from the Islamic theological idea of Dar'al Harb, and Dar'al Islam, add to that under Sharia' and according to the Quran;

The Witness of Zimmis

Zimmis cannot testify against Muslims. They can only testify against other Zimmis or Musta'min. Their oaths are not considered valid in an Islamic court. According to the Sharia, a Zimmi is not even qualified to be under oath. Muraghi states bluntly, "The testimony of a Zimmi is not accepted because Allah - may He be exalted - said: God will not let the infidels (kafir) have an upper hand over the believers'." A Zimmi, regarded as an infidel, cannot testify against any Muslim regardless of his moral credibility.

Sheikh Manna K. Al-Qubtan, professor of Higher studies at the School of Islamic Law in Riyadh, indicates that:

Basically, the command of non-Muslims over Muslims in not admissible, because God Almighty said: 'Allah will not give access to the infidels (i.e. Christians) to have authority over believers (Muslims) {Qur'an 4:141}. For God - Glory be to Him - has elevated Muslims to the highest rank (over all men) and foreordained to them the might, by virtue of the Qurtanic text in which God the Almighty said: 'Might and strength be to Allah, the Prophet (Muhammad) and the believers (Muslims) {Qur'an 63:8}.

Thus, the authority of non-Muslim over a Muslim is incompatible with these two verses, since the Muslim has to submit to and obey whoever is in charge over him. The Muslim, therefore becomes inferior to him, and this should not be the case with the Muslim.

Dr. Salih Al-Sadlan, professor of Sharia at the School of Islamic Law, Riyadh, cites the same verses and asserts that it is not permissible for a infidel (in this case is a Christian) to be in charge over Muslims whether in the private or public sector. Such an act:

"entails the humiliaton of the Muslim and the exaltation of the infidel (Christian). This infidel may exploit his position to humiliate and insult the Muslims who work under his administration. It is advisable to the company owner to fear God Almighty and to authorize only a Muslim over the Muslims. Also, the injunctions issued by the ruler, provides that an infidel should not be in charge when there is a Muslim available to assume the command. Our advice to the company owner is to remove this infidel and to replace him with a Muslim."

In his response Dr. Fahd Al-Usaymi, professor of Islamic studies at the Teachers' College in Riyadh, remarks that the Muslim owner of the company should seek a Muslim employee who is better than the Christian (manager), or equal to him or even less qualified but has the ability to be trained to obtain the same skill enjoyed by the Christian. It is not permissible for a Christian to be in charge of Muslims by the virtue of the general evidences which denote the superiority of the Muslim over others. Then he quotes (Qur'an 63:8) and also cites verse 22 of Chapter 58:

Thou wilt not find any people who believe in Allah and the Last Day, loving those who resist Allah and His Apostle, even though they were their fathers or their sons, or their brothers, or their kindred.

Usaymi claims that being under the authority of a Christian may force Muslims to flatter him and humiliate themselves to this infidel on the hope to obtain some of what he has. This is against the confirmed evidences. Then he alludes to the story of Umar Ibn Al-Khattab the second Caliph, who was displeased with one of his governors who appointed a Zimmi as a treasurer, and remarked: "Have the wombs of women become sterile that they gave birth only to this man?" Then Usaymi adds:

Muslims should fear God in their Muslim brothers and train them... for honesty and fear of God are, originally, in the Muslim, contrary to the infidel (the Christian) who, originally, is dishonest and does not fear God.

20. ### S.A.M.uniquely dreadfulValued Senior Member

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So killing 300 children with white phosphorus bombs is NOT a barbarous terrorist or murderous action?

21. ### BellsStaff Member

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Absolve him of guilt?

Where?

All I see is their trying to find some explanation, some cause that could have triggered the horrendous crime he committed.

Look at the history behind the crime and you might just understand why someone like this lunatic snapped and did what he did. Are you suggesting that they condoned his actions? Far from it.

Hang on, you're complaining about "white guilt", while demanding that Muslims feel guilt over what a Muslim individual, on the other side of the world, does in a moment of insanity? Are you suggesting that all Muslims should feel guilty each time another Muslim commits murder? Do you feel guilty each time a white man commits murder? Do you feel the need to apologise to the general public each time it happens? No? So why is there an expectation that Muslims do so each time another Muslim wherever commits a crime?

If you expect such behaviour from Muslims, it would be hypocritical of you to not reciprocate and do the same each time a white Westerner (seeing as that is what you happen to be) commits a crime.

Really?

You do?

Every single crime committed in the West, you condemn? Where? Hell, you can't even bring yourself to condemn the actions of soldiers who willfully murdered civilians and destroyed property. Or is that not a crime?

Who did they specifically name?

They spoke of what appears to be fairly standard in a lot of sections of the IDF. What they have stated to that class has been witnessed repeatedly by human rights observers and by Palestinian civilians.

As I said, what they said was not exactly a surprise.

22. ### ArsalanRegistered Senior Member

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As long as you cant provide me with a verse in the Quran about the various Houses you keep referring to, this point is just BS. Fact is, that Dhimmis mentioned in Islamic law are not what you just posted. If you want to go down that road, theres idiots on both sides. Trying to make it seem that its only the Muslims that say stuff like that goes to show how dishonest you are willing to be. Why dont yu post some of the nice stuff said by the Christians and Jews about the Muslims and Arabs?

23. ### copernicus66BannedBanned

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*stares in disbelief*

AHAHAHAHAHAHAH! Good one, Bells. For a moment you almost had me, but now I see that you're simply feigning obtuseness for a laugh. Whew, you almost had me.

Wait, you're *not* joking? What the fuck...

What the fuck?

I never demanded such a thing. What the fuck?

No? I re-iterate, what the fuck?