Israel & Palestine (v2)

So your solution is to not do anything to fight and let themselves be ignored so Israel can just take from them? No Lucy they need to continue to fight. Better to die fighting for freedom than die in chains.

 

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Freedom? They are fighting to eliminate the Jews and establish an Islamic state in it's place. Don't be so naieve.

 

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I'm not. I am basing my views on facts you should try it when it comes to this topic. Don't let your blind support for Israel and your equally blind bigotry against the palestinians make you ignore reality. They are fighting to regain their freedom in their own lands. The only people fighting to eliminate a people and instate a country founded on religion are the jewish people.

 

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I am bigoted against Islamic Jihad, which is what this is, which has only a passing connection to real issues surrounding the formation of the internationally recognized and legitimate state of Israel.

 

while yes this is Jihad( this struggle is for freedom) your own posting history syuggest basic bigotry against the palestinians.

Passing connection Israel creation is the basis for the conflict. with out it's criminal creation their would be no conflict. and how is Israel legit. Both under balfour and the UN charter it isn't so where does its mythical legitimacy come from?

 

The freedom to have Islamic rule under the clerics of Iran is not freedom most people on the planet would recognize.

 

What? that in no way what the palestinians are fighting for. the state religion would be Islam but the state wouldn't be islamic. the palestinians were generally a secular group. The main cause of them embracing extremist forms of Islam is Israel's constant war against them to remove and supplant them.





and name one shred of evidence that palestine if it did gain its freedom from its Israeli oppressors would be under the rule of Iranian clerics.

 

Better and better:

What happens when the puppets don't play along?

 

Puppet or legitimate negotiator?

 

Is an enemy designated negotiator legitimate?

 

There are many ways to 'fight'. Gandhi had his way, Gerry Adams another and Malcolm X had yet another. What is quite obvious is that active resistance doesn't work in this particular case, what worked for the IRA is a complete failure for the Palestinians. Every time a bomb goes off or a missile is launched into Israel its an excuse for the Israeli's to take even more land and to destroy even more property and treat the Palestinians even worse. So given this reality they need to change tactics. They can continue to fight to no avail and continue to lose despite their fight and the world will not intervene. The fact is that they are in chains and they are not achieving freedom.

 

Well if they would prefer to not have European or American intervention then why don't they come to a compromise with Israel for a different mediator? Israel will decline but the Palestinians can basically decline to deal with American mediation and pull themselves out of the game. US mediation is never going to be in their interest so why waste their time playing in a rigged game?

They will have to compromise, there is no other way out of it. They can choose not to compromise and simply continue to live with the degradation and loss of land and statehood.

When they blow themselves up Israel sees this as aggression and so does the american media and much of the world. When they shoot missiles, even if it hits nothing, it is seen as aggression by Israel and is used by the Israelis as an excuse for even worse aggression. When Hamas or any Palestinian calls for the fall of Israel as a State it is seen as aggression by the Israelis and the rest of the world. So yes its important that they don't come across as aggressors IF they want to show Israel as the ONLY aggressor. At the end of the day it is a Palestinian Israeli problem and they are the only two who can work through this issue. So if they do not even know how to talk to each other who is going to solve this? Certainly not the US nor the international community.

If anyone lies down in front of a moving bulldozer they are asking for it

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Remember a young female american activist was crushed to death playing that same stupid tactic.

 

So your solution is for them to go entirely non violent let Israel prevent the protests from getting out and have Israel continue to steal land? They must continue to fight violently against Israel. Israel doesn't want peace. What they need to do is change their targets.

 

I don't know if the American lay down in front of the bulldozer but "asking" to be beaten up was how Gandhi did it. There were always more skulls to crack than there were Britishers with batons.

Difference is the Israelis "defend" themselves by cracking the skulls [with gas grenades] of nonviolent protestors

 

and yet when american eco people do it they never get run over. face it some people will never admit the casual brutality that is Israel.

 

Some people know the difference between right and wrong

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Other people don't

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They simply have no clue:

http://mondoweiss.net/2009/11/a-student-responds-to-the-j-street-conference.html

 

The Chinese know the difference between right on wrong? That's hilarious! They killed 400-800 people during that incident!

 

So? Israel does that practically every few months. Difference is, no one claims the Chinese are right to do what they do.

And they don't have a running joke on Pancake Chan or Tee shirts with pregnant women in their targets. The Israelis are way down on the scale of tolerance [as well as sanity], when compared to the Chinese.

 

The Chinese do.

 

So? Who doesn't? But those tanks there, they didn't run over that guy. Thats a whole lot more civilisation in that one moment than in all the history of Israel.