Israel goes fascist: Lieberman to the fore!

Livni won't work with the religious, she won't work with non-Jews and other party members will not join up with extreme right parties. That eliminates Shas, the Arab parties and Lieberman. I think Netanyahu will prefer Liberman over Tzipi. Lieberman will not hold the party to ransom as he would Kadima, Livni is an idiot and will attempt to power broke at every opportunity; note how she handled herself during the war, it was hard to find any diplomacy in her rhetoric as foreign minister, she was taking charge. That puts her in the opposition from the get-go.


@spidergoat

I also don't think Kadima can do anything even if they win. They do not have sufficient number of seats to form an independent government. The Arabs will not form a coalition with her after Gaza. So its still Lieberman and he'll veto or allow the government to fall.

Anyway its a choice between who is your favorite war criminal. Its not like Meretz or some other party that can make a difference is in the ring.

edit: heh, the UK paper had it right. Sadly they changed it later

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That was like ... lightning quick! Now why am I not surprised?

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Look up "Israel terrorist attacks" If you dont think that the Palestinians are getting what they deserve than you have never lived in reality.

 

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I always find such arguments mildly amusing, from a historical perspective at any rate.

The truth is that we have two groups in roughly the same area who simply will not live together in peace. It is utterly a waste of time to try and say who has done what to whom first or who is more to blame. Like feuding neighbors, the truth has long since stopped mattering.

History tends to show that this situation has only a few likely outcomes.

1. One group conquers the other one, leading eventually to the conquered being either amalgamated or wiped out.

2. Both groups fight it out until both sides are sick of seeing everyone die and they work out their own peace.

3. One group moves out or is kicked out.

Quite frankly, the world's attention to this problem has only delayed what will inexorably happen. They have to work it out for themselves, either peacefully or through bloodshed.

Either way... whatever governments come or go... the underlying problem remains the same.

 

You can't get much more extreme than Likud, they "emerged" years ago and look to be taking over.

Collective punishment is a war crime - capital, in some cases from WWII.

Israel has done far worse to the Palestinians than it has taken from them. The child kill total, for example, is an order of magnitude greater at Israeli hands.

One of them invaded the other one, and the invader is aggressively expanding its territory at the expense of the other; the other has been confined to ghettos, blockaded, and fenced inside of shrinking areas.

 

Again you are playing the blame game that everyone does. I bet you anything that others have exactly the opposite idea that you do. The fact is that Israel, like many nations, has a territory that it has actually conquered and held on to after a number of wars with it's neighbors. It is not going anywhere... so you have your situation. Are they any worse than the other nations around them who have conquered their area?

The truth is... it's not a question of justice. It's a question of reality. The reality is that both groups have been killing each other for too long to stop now. What they need is to hash it out themselves, one way or another.

 

I guess the world will have to hold its collective breath and wait for Israel to declare war on itself.
Likud will probably be in power when it happens, so they'll try to effect a military dictatorship and the other parties will form guerilla (sorry, terrorist) militias and try to effect a putsch. It might be interesting to watch the fanaticists implode. This could be accelerated if the US goes broke and Israel's big tit full of milk and honey dries up, Mum will swat her fractious infant away and it will have to learn to crawl on its own.

And there will be 60 years of enforced Jewish oppression it will need to make up for, after its army falls apart. Oh well, it looked all good for a while there.

 

They would be wrong. People can have all sorts of fantasies - nature sides with facts on the ground.

Israel, like no other nation on earth except possibly China, has been expanding its territory by conquest and usurption since WWII, and is doing so now. After the carnage of WWII, the rest of the nations of the planet settled down within their borders - by treaty, by mutual agreement, and by threat. Israel is doing things that no other nation has done in over a generation. In the past, this kind of behavior has always meant war.

They have the majority of their regional population fenced into ghettos, and are abusing them in a variety of cruel and oppressive manners. They exist in a state of armed conflict with them and many of their neighbors, conflict in which they are the aggressors. The countries around them are not expanding by conquest, not making war on their neighbors.

This situation will not last.

You say they are not going anywhere. How, then, will they rid themselves of the Palestinians?

 

i was wodering when someone would post this thread - and to be quite honest i am surprised it has taken so long..

i was going to create it on Monday but then i had to much work on.

So the guy who has threatened to wipe Egypt off the map and probably a good proportion of Israel, by courtsey of his threats that israel should bomb the aswan Dam is now the power broker in israel...

Liberman is a complete and utter racist i have been banging on about this imbercile for a few years now
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=59169&highlight=lieberman

But in the forth coming cabinet he is not going to be a marginal player !!!

BUT as i said lets go for the one state solution, with everyone who lives in Israstine (over 16's or whatever) getting equal votes

 

Hmmm... no other nation has waged war for selfish and self serving purposes?


US invasions

Korea
Vietnam
Persian Gulf
Iraq

Muslim countries

Lybia vs Egypt
Iraq vs Kuwait
Iraq vs Iran


I could really go on fairly easily.

 

rob u r funny, Lybia vs Egypt - i still dont udnerstand that one, but then again it was just egos i guess!!!

actually egos and wars do have good corelation so u maybe onto somehting!!

 

You may be right after all, the EU has frozen its trade upgrade and international pressures may force Natanyahu to abandon ideology for pragmatism. He will probably invite Kadima.

 

That wasn't the claim. This was the claim:

As you can see, a critical difference: The reason that Iraq, for example, has not expanded its territory by conquest and usurption is that it was not permitted to do that. When Iraq took Kuwait, more than four dozen nations banded together and threw it back out.

Was that because Kuwait was virtuous, and wronged? Hardly. Kuwait was a disagreeable misogynistic theocratic sheikdom of no intrinsic worth, created by colonial perfidy and engaged in stealing Iraq's oil. It probably is, historically, part of Iraq. That was irrelevant.

When Israel occupied Lebanon, and kept the Golan Heights, and expanded its settlements, and invaded the West Bank and Gaza and planted the boots of its soldiers in its neighbors' streets for decades, shooting people and burdening everyday life with checkpoints and threat, it was not thrown out by a post-WWII coalition of enforcement. When Israel creates apartheid, and pins the majority of the area's residents in ghettos and fenced town they cannot leave easily or without permission, choking their food and medicine at will, taking the best of the water for itself,

it is not greeted with worldwide sanctions, banned from the Olympics, etc.

 

Lieberman is a hardline fascist.

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20070101/lynfield

Have the mods decided to cesspool any discussion which is anti-Israel?

 

how is it unproductive James???

It is highlighting the significant shift to the right in israeli politics as illustrated in the election results.

And a guy who has stated that Israel should bomb the Aswan dam is promotion mass murder of millions and the effective wiping of Egypt off the Map and at least half of Isreal too (silly nazis imbercile didnt even realise the implications of his own comments !!!)

 

Its unproductive to discuss a strong shift to the right in Israeli politics? I think you'll find in the coming year that Israeli Arabs will get targeted as a fifth column, excuses will be made for discriminating against them for their "love of Hamas" while there will be very little progress in stopping settlement expansion and greater targeting of the civilian population in the occupied territories.

It is important that these issues are highlighted and discussed to create awareness of the conditions as they develop there. While it may be "bullshit" to you, its meaningful to those of us would like to see some international action against this treatment of an essentially defenceless population.

Perhaps you have your own biases in this regard. I have no problem with anyone getting "worked up", its preferable to indifference to suffering.

 

No, James is pointing out your bias, agenda and dishonesty. Wake up, sleepy head.

 

I have never pretended I am not biased. I think people should take a stand. You can't stand on both sides of an issue honestly anyway. Thats just dishonest or its indifference.

I always stand with the underdog, no matter what/