Islam denounces terrorism

Crunchy Cat - I didn't know you went so low

Crunchy Cat

What do you know? Each day brings a surprise. I really hadn't considered you among that low-thinking crowd. Though some of your positions suffered severe simplicity, I found them geniune and thoughtful nonetheless.

This, however ... this is just freaking disgraceful.

I mean, really ... why can you not simply examine the issues put before you? Must you cast people as villains before you'll give them the time of day?

What's your address? I'll send you the membership kit. Would you prefer HJ or Born-Again Virgins? For style considerations, that's a brown shirt versus vestments of blindingly brilliant ignorance.

As a general address:

Look around, Westerners, at how many excuses we make for Western politics and the ramifications thereof. If we extended a mere tenth of that compassion to issues pertaining to the Islamic world, you would find that the problems are, actually, workable.

Seriously ... start with this one: Violent Islamic radicals do not trust in God. This is why they take matters into their own hands.

And that's been true of the Western cultural heritage, too, since long before Dubya.

:m:,
Tiassa

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Tiassa

puh-leeease. I was baiting (and thanks for killing it). In the
forums I may explore, I may bait, and I may utilize any number of
methods of interaction. I'm sorry if you've gotten too used to
some of them, but to set expectations you will probably strongly
disagree with some.

 

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Whoops ... well excuuuuuuuuuse me

Sorry. Just thought I'd try speaking the language again.

I guess I just don't know how to speak Gutter. It's not your fault. It's a prevailing theme here among our posters.

:m:,
Tiassa

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Thats a whole new topic in itself. I'll mail you a parachute so you
can jump off that pedestal you climbed on and enjoy the sweet
smell of the sewers once again.

 

I believe the phrase is ...

If i'm not mistaken, the phrase that goes here is, "puh-leeease. I was baiting".

I'm happy to return this discussion to its prior participants at this time.

:m:,
Tiassa

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Would have hated to dissapoint you. moo.

 

* In what way would that be ? What do you consider Arab standards and why would they be mine ?
* Im very happy that you have knowledge I do not have , perhaps you can share it and prove it of any relevance to rather arguing you on Musharaf ?

* There is no logic in demanding to provide a better alternative when criticizing something .
* Again great that I dont know anything about Pakistand the way you do , do you care to show how your amazing knowledge would be beyon danything I could ever imagine ?
* Is it relevant for Musharaf that any other Pakistan leader has similar errors ? Does that make Musharaf less errorous ? Does it make him any better ? How does this disprove the critic on him ?

Does the fact there is no alternative I can think of disprove Musharafs betrayal ? Does it disprove he didnt represent the peoples ?

Again very nice you have superior knowledge , and very nice you love semi-democracy , but if you cant disprove any of the points other than by stating your superior knowledge and pointing to the lack of my knowledge of an alternative this is rather useless .

* I dont have any alternative because I have not enough knowledge on the subject to create one . However I do have enough knowledge to know that Musharaf is a trator .

* Why sacrifice Iraq ? Why sacrifice Afghanistan ? You dont sacrifice you resist . Tell me , how many of Pakistan would choose resistance over the betrayel ?

* Is it now a : Arab didnt help us then , why should we care for them now , game ? Afghanistan isnt Arab . And righteousness in your actions ought not to depend on the unrighteous actions of your brothers .

Does the fact that peoples do not behave correctly make it ok ? This is what brought the entire Muslim world in shit in the first place , selling out because of national-socialist interests . Best decisions FOR THEM yes , not for others who ought to be considered as brothers . It seems you are living up more to Arab standards than I do . In Arabic we have a name for national-socialistic interests its called Kuweit .

And are you on repeat or something ? I am not running opposition in Pakistan why are you asking me fro an alternative a thousand times ?

1) A countryman has right to call him a betrayer in the context of the betrayement of his country . Just like many others , Musharaf betrayed the Ummah .

2) So would his countrymen call him a betrayer ? Tell me

1) If the Ummah does not exist neither do you .
2) 75% would have chosen to ally with USA ?

Do you honestly believe this axis of evill bullshit ? There was a hostile consideration of nations before and after 9-11 , Pakistan was in them both . Just because USA has USED you for their Afghani games doesnt mean they consider you their friends .

Witch would be 25% ? Dont give me this crap man you cant demonize the opposition , you cant lable Musharaf-protestors as thugs your credibility to make unbias and non-emotional statements has gone below zero at this moment .

Thugs with a capital even ........ Anyways , I dont really get your point on TelAviv and Im not judging anyones mode . I judged Musharafs mode .

 

Scooby Doo

Exactly. It's too bad I did not have the opportunity to elicit
an emotional response from the 'Proud Syrian'. It would have had
alot of potential to explore some interesting Muslim phenomena.
Unfortunately, the wrong person had a cow and the original
intent was negated.

The thread in general turned into a comical finger-pointing
session about who knows more about who drew first blood. It's
just plain silly. Any and every species fights. One side always
starts and it does not really matter which side it was because
its guranteed that one side WOULD have started anyway.

People can lay all the complexity they want on top of their
genetically encoded behaviors (Jihad's, God, society, etc.) but
most of their 'woes' are a result these biological programs made
with amino acids.

 

I'm gonna give you Palestine as an example. If the Prime Minister represented the people of Palestine, then suicide bombings would be encouraged. Sometimes the people are wrong and the leader is right. Mahmoud Abbas is one of them. He does not tolerate suicide bombings and is looking for a peaceful solution. However, it is the Israelis who are messing up now. Building a wall, passing the racial purity law, etc.

From your perspective, can you tell me why you find Mushreff a traitor?

It is the actions of current Muslims and the US which have resulted in the separation of Muslim countries. Do you think we like watching other Muslims getting killed? I sure don't. Pakistani's don't. But what can we do? If we resist, we will be removed from the picture. Thus, we have to pray for a greater power to help us.

Yes, sometimes you must ally with the enemy to save yourself. Would you like to see another country destroyed? Iraq and Afghanistan have been attacked. Syria and Iran are on the list. Would you like to see Pakistan added to the list too?

I don't recall skywalker saying he thought of USA as a friend. USA will do whatever makes it benefit. If Pakistan does anything the USA doesn't want them too, USA will become "enemies" with them. Iraq is a example. Pakistan is aware USA is not a true ally, but it must do what it can to save itself.[/QUOTE]

 

Re: Re: Proud Syrian

No, that is a false assumption. These are the quotes that the Islamic radicals believe in. They believe in one part of the Quran and not the other. To believe in one part and not the other does not make you a Muslim. Plus, it says to attack those when they attack you first.

 

Scoob

Actually, any 'belief' other than Muslim is considered an 'attack'
according to the Qu'ran. I do recall something about a person
being able to stave off retaliation for their 'attack' if they pay
enough cash.

 

The concept of war should always be avoided. You should try to reach a peaceful solution from dipolamatic means. You are not suppose to go to war, but if the other nation declares war on you and they are not willing to stop, then you can go to war to protect yourself.

Take the Holocaust. Hitler did a war on the Jews. If it was Muslims, then they first try to find a peaceful solotion. If Hitler didn't stop and went to war, then they would fight back.

Don't believe anything about Islam from what they show on TV. They only show the "terrorism" side and how Islam announces fighting and violence and so. It is a religion of peace. They only show stuff about the "fake" Islam. Never once do they show what Muslims are doing to stop terrorism, the actions of Muslim charitable organizations, etc.

 

Scoob

Yeppers. Sorry to say it is.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Proud Syrian

The Quran clearly instructs Prophet Muhammed on how to deal with unbelievers during the time of no war. Here is the Sura below. Sura 9 which have the kill the unbelievers stuff was intended for a special war that the muslims were completely opressed in and killed for just believing in god, they were instructed to kill back the unbelievers.

The Disbelievers
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.

[109.1] Say: O unbelievers!
[109.2] I do not serve that which you serve,
[109.3] Nor do you serve Him Whom I serve:
[109.4] Nor am I going to serve that which you serve,
[109.5] Nor are you going to serve Him Whom I serve:
[109.6] You shall have your religion and I shall have my religion.

I tell you the same thing, noone serve what you serve and you don't serve what any other person serve. Religion is private and between you and god and to each is their own religion and the judgement will be only for god on whoes right an who is wrong.

 

Pakman

* If we can manage to not kill ourselves while comitting assaults and we can manage to leave children out of it I see no moral or strategical objection whatsoever in Palestinian assaults on zionist targets . I think as Palestinians are very moderate in their religious convictions and they surely would understand that children are the innocent ones , we can get an agreement on it . When so , your assertion is not valid .

* However I understand the point you made that the peoples are not always right (just used a very bad example) and I know the peoples are usually wrong . But when it comes to fundamental questions , do they not have the right to self-determine their wrong-ness and act on it ?

Selling out Afghanistan to Amerika would be a big point .

Praying is what got the Jews gassed remember that . I am very well aware the seperation of Muslim countries is result of Imperial mapmaking , current Muslims have little in say for that their leaders from the beginning of this century have together with the Brits & French and other Western countries sticking their nose where they smell $ .

Choosing for your own land and community to be saved from the fate other Muslim nations (without guilt) receive , is IMO doing exactly what Imperial forces desire to do , remain seperated and act out of self-interest that ofetnly can easy be combined with Imperial interests . That is why we can have psycho dictators because they ally with the powers , that why we can have disgusting less than a million peoples oil-states because they choose self-interest and ally with the powers . That path eventually leads to destruction of the entire Ummah , this includes that little local piece you were trying to save for yourself .

If you wish to be an ethical egoist that is fine , but be aware that on the long term for ethical egoistic motives such an approach ends up where u dont want it , having bad results for yourself .

I have family who is on that to-be shock & awed list as they are in Syria , the question is does one chooses for himself or does one choose for the entire peoples of the Ummah . Eventually Pakistan will be added anyways , is it merely hope you would base your egoism on ? Chose for yourself and eventually you will not only have sold out your peoples , but yourself as well .

Again the same issue .

The offense defence situation is such a theoretical one that you can use for all directions . You can look at the direct momentary situation of offense & defence , however if you take the wider context you will see that reality may be different . And if you step beyond that you can find yourself judging offense and defence from historical perspective . Avoiding these 2 extremes is best IMO , and in that sense you will not find many Mujahiddeen who fight out of anything else than defence .

 

1. And why is that? It was clearly religiously motivated.
Ask any muslim why they allways have to blow shit up and they give you a long lecture about how evil the west is, about the crusades and the US nukeing Japan in ww2 as this in some way gives you the rigth to kill civilians.
Given a clear chance to denounce terrorism 99% of muslims chose to justify it.

2. Here in Norway where i come there are a lot of muslim imigrants. If we where to hate them for being here,.. well that would make us rasists rigth?
Theres just now pleasing muslims if you dont do some thing they hate you and blow you up and if you try to do something they hate you and blow you up.
Islam has the mentalety of a 5 year old and if it's ever going to gain my respect it needs to grow up.

 

Digging in the trash for information?
I base my argumets on what i hear "you people say"
Thats digging in the trash?...

come to think of it YES it is.

 

you represent "your people" well.