# Is very finite number of ways that matter can be arranged?

Discussion in 'Physics & Math' started by Tailspin, Jul 3, 2014.

1. ### danshawenValued Senior Member

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If different illumination is not convincing that there is an infinitude of variations for a single portrait, consider that you could also vary the thermostat of the room in which it is stored. Each incremental temperature affects each atom of the painting differently. You could freeze half of it, put the other half in a sauna. Still not enough? You could display it on a planet with high gravity or with low gravity. Each atom in a different energy state yet again. Any painting in the Milky Way galaxy is receding at nearly light speed from galaxies at cosmological distances. Another infinitude of energies of which the matter that makes up a painting is a small, almost insignificant part made up mostly of empty space. You get the idea? Energy and mass are equivalent, but energy always has an infinitude of directions, energies, etc. Matter mimics some of these, but does not perfectly quantize energy sufficiently even to justify thinking of it as a collection of discrete particles and / or relative positions. Don't even get me started on how the uncertainty principle figures in.

Discrete mathematics as applied to this problem is only a figment of some mathematician's fevered imagination.

3. ### danshawenValued Senior Member

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3,950
I wonder why our finite automata has no opinion?

5. ### krash661[MK6] transitioning scifi to realityValued Senior Member

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well without the need of all these pages and these lengthily responses that in a sense, do not pertain
high and low energy states.
simple.

then understand the states of matter

the original question is,

Is very finite number of ways that matter can be arranged?

with what i pointed out.

it appears to me that
phase matter is what all these unnecessary lengthy post are stating.
which should not be looked at as the same as states of matter.

7. ### krash661[MK6] transitioning scifi to realityValued Senior Member

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and in my opinion, post # 20 should have been the end of this nonsense.
but instead it turned into the typical focused arguing nonsense.

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Nonsense?

9. ### TailspinRegistered Member

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Nonsense?

You think it's nonsense to get upset about the sort of thing?
To you it's nonsense but it literally life and death to me, because of this theory is true…

I

DON’T

WANT

TO

LIVE!

I'm sure you think that's silly but that's how I feel.
I find it completely unacceptable to live in a reality that follows this rule. I'm sure you don't understand why it bothers me. Well, I can't understand why it doesn't bother you. I cannot conceive how none of you find this even slightly disturbing.
You have just attacked one of the very few shreds of hope I have to cling to.

Having this worry you ridiculed is nothing new to me, I have encountered plenty of insensitive people who simply can't understand why it bothers me no matter how many times I explain it to them.

Honestly, I was hoping that by starting this thread someone would say something like…
“This theory does have some logic to it but there's a very strong chance that logic is flawed and this theory is generally unaccepted by most people.”
At the very least, can't you people concede to the idea that it's possible, just possible that it is possible for matter to be arranged infinitely in a finite space. That this theory is just a theory and maybe disproven by some unknown factor or some information that will be uncovered in the future.

10. ### RJBeeryNatural PhilosopherValued Senior Member

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4,136
Tailspin...there is always, ALWAYS the chance that matter can be infinitely arranged. There's always a chance (and perhaps a decent one) that other dimensions exist which we are not (yet) capable of exploring. No theory is ever written in stone, and there is always the possibility for it to be modified in the future.

11. ### river

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11,058
No there isn't

If there were , then concrete could become , wood

12. ### river

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11,058
No there isn't

If there were , then concrete could become , wood

13. ### TailspinRegistered Member

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(Excuse the improvised quotes, the quote button isn't working)

RJBeery: "Tailspin...there is always, ALWAYS the chance that matter can be infinitely arranged. There's always a chance (and perhaps a decent one) that other dimensions exist which we are not (yet) capable of exploring. No theory is ever written in stone, and there is always the possibility for it to be modified in the future."

That doesn't sound anything like what you were saying before.

river: "No there isn't

If there were , then concrete could become , wood"

Well you certainly know how to kill hope.

14. ### RJBeeryNatural PhilosopherValued Senior Member

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That's because there's a HUGE difference between discussing currently-accepted theory vs the "meta science" of what is possible. You're really asking what is POSSIBLE, not how we view the world currently. No one can claim that we understand reality enough to answer your question with certainty.

15. ### TailspinRegistered Member

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RJBeery: “Tailspin...there is always, ALWAYS the chance that matter can be infinitely arranged. There's always a chance (and perhaps a decent one) that other dimensions exist which we are not (yet) capable of exploring. No theory is ever written in stone, and there is always the possibility for it to be modified in the future.”

Thank you for that, it means a lot to me.

I must say I'm surprised to learn that this is a currently accepted theory. Before my father taught me about it seven years ago I had never heard anything like it or anything like it since. And most people I've talked to about it have never heard of it either.

16. ### krash661[MK6] transitioning scifi to realityValued Senior Member

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fields of influence

divide up the conception of the physical world because each existence consists of different layers.
it consists of a material illusion and a sphere of influence.
certain physical conditions are associated only with the realm of the material,
while other and more complicated conditions are associated only with the sphere of influence of the material world.
the conception of the physical world is based upon a simple material illusion
the illusion is further subdivided into three elementary or basic conditions of matter.
a fourth and very important condition also exists,
it is the one bordering on the sphere of influence or plasma realm
a controlled transformation or an elevation of the frequency of matter and the stable existence of this fourth aggregate condition of matter exists at a very primitive level.
there are simply five states of matter.

plasma, i don't mean just "hot gas" (as the concept is generally simplified),
but rather i mean a higher aggregate condition of matter.
the plasma state of matter is a special form of matter which lies between its real existence and the sphere of influence,
that is,
a complete loss of mass and pure accretion of energy of various form whenever matter is "pushed or shoved."
the fourth state of matter is very important for certain physical conditions which can be used to generate antigravity.
essentially, in the world of real physics, there are no bipolar forces, but rather only "observer dependent reflective behavior" of a single, large unified force at different levels.

17. ### TailspinRegistered Member

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Anyone else want to comment?

18. ### TailspinRegistered Member

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Is anyone still watching?

If you are please help. I can't stop thinking about this every waking moment. I want to dismiss this theory as untrue, let it go and move on but I simply can't. If I don't get help soon I fear I'm going to crack.

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20. ### TailspinRegistered Member

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78
Then tell me where people go when they've been traumatized by science. Because, as far as I know, there is no such place.

21. ### RJBeeryNatural PhilosopherValued Senior Member

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Tailspin, you are not traumatized by science; you are obsessing over something that is ultimately inconsequential in an inappropriate and unhealthy manner. Listen to your father and get on some meds.

22. ### TailspinRegistered Member

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Well maybe I am obsessing but so what? How can I not be obsessed when something has struck at the things I consider to be the very core of my existence?
And believe me it is far from inconsequential, at least for me. Just the other day my father angrily said that I was being ridiculous. But let me tell you this…

There is no possible way I can ever accept this theory and be happy.
No possible way and no amount of medication will change that.

And I would appreciate it if you respected my feelings and point of view.
I don't know how you or anyone else can say it's inconsequential.

Imagine a preacher, because he believes in God he has dedicated his life to doing good works and preaching the gospel to inspire others to do the same. Supposing he completely lost faith in the existence of God, do you think he would still continue to preach? He could continue to read from the Bible and preach to others but his heart and soul would not be in it.

That's how I feel. If this theory is true then creativity, at least how I knew it, does not exist.

You want me to listen to my father? He vehemently, fervently believes in this theory and it doesn't bother him in the slightest. The idea of accepting this theory makes me physically sick and I won't do it.

I accept the fact that no one can give me a 100% answer. I want to know if there is a valid reason for believing that this theory is not true, that it is possible for matter to be infinitely arranged in a finite space and that all possibilities are infinite. Because the only other alternative IC would be to accept this theory is true and that would result in me is seeing creativity in the coldest and most cynical way and I can't accept that.

I know this concern sounds utterly ridiculous, even laughable to you but that's how I feel and I think you should respect that.

23. ### RJBeeryNatural PhilosopherValued Senior Member

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I respect your feelings but I also hope that you recognize that they are probably not healthy ones. This is a trivial subject to get all bent out of shape about, and the fact that you cannot imagine how any of the rest of us can go on living without feeling the way you do should give you a clue that perhaps your reaction is an atypical one.