# Is this true?

Discussion in 'Science & Society' started by GRO$$, Mar 13, 2002. 1. ### TylerRegistered Senior Member Messages: 4,888 It's aimed at truthseeker. You see, his original comment said that the U.S. has done to democracy what USSR did to marxism (ignore for a second that CCCP communism was NOT based on Marxism). I asked him then if he could actually show evidence of that. So far he has done the following: told me that democracy means EVERYONE votes on EVERYTHING (which is flat out wrong). told me that democracy has perversed by the U.S. in search for power over actual democracy. told me that he doesnt need to discuss communism in order to prove his original question told me he already proved his point not read my posts That's why! 2. ### Google AdSenseGuest Advertisement to hide all adverts. 3. ### TruthSeekerFancy Virtual Reality MonkeyValued Senior Member Messages: 15,162 ?????? 4. ### Google AdSenseGuest Advertisement to hide all adverts. 5. ### TylerRegistered Senior Member Messages: 4,888 What? 6. ### Google AdSenseGuest Advertisement to hide all adverts. 7. ### TruthSeekerFancy Virtual Reality MonkeyValued Senior Member Messages: 15,162 Tyler, My teacher got this from a book. Unfortunatly, I forgot to ask him the name of the book... "Neither Smith's nor Markx's ideas have ever been practised exactly as they were expressed." That's what they have in common. Understood now? Hope so... Love, Nelson 8. ### TylerRegistered Senior Member Messages: 4,888 I understand. But the statement, while true, is meaningless. Unlses you've missed it the past 8 times, communism in the USSR was not based on Marx. Here, maybe you'll get it if I put it this way: C O M M U N I S M I N T H E U S S R W A S N O T B A S E D O N M A R X I S M ! ! ! Get it yet?? I sure hope so. Either that or you really need to learn how to read. And Smith is definetly not the originator of democracy!! And if he was, would you really think that ANY political system would hold up EXACTLY as original for over 200 years in modern and post-modern societies? That's why the comment is just plain stupid. By the way, please don't come in here and argue politics based on what your teacher tells you. My teacher told me espionage wasn't part of the cold war. And 'my teacher said so' is not evidence of anything, just for future knowledge. And like I said long ago - if your original comment was just that both systems changed over time, don't bother saying it. That's like going into the middle of a debate between two physicists and saying 'did you know 1 plus 1 is two?'. The comment basically is what I had figured out by the age of 10 (incidentally, which is when I first read the manifesto. Er.... tried to read the manifesto). Once again, in case you have forgetten since earlier in the post (and the last, oh, about 6 posts I've made and the one Oyster {who you apparently respect} made); COMMUNISM IN THE USSR WAS NOT BASED ON MARXISM. And. DEMOCRACY WAS NOT ONLY ABOUT SMITH! and. EVERY POLITICAL SYSTEM WILL DEVIATE OVER TIME. get it yet??? 9. ### TruthSeekerFancy Virtual Reality MonkeyValued Senior Member Messages: 15,162 Tyler, I said those things! That was EXACTLY my point!The ideologies are not applied. Instead, the ideas are twisted! I have books to back him up... That's for sure... :bugeye: Love, Nelson 10. ### GRO$$Registered Senior Member

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By the way, please don't come in here and argue politics based on what your teacher tells you. My teacher told me espionage wasn't part of the cold war. And 'my teacher said so' is not evidence of anything, just for future knowledge.

That is so sad. Don't misunderstand: it is true, I have noticed that what my history teacher teaches the class is about 25% facts and 75% opinion... its very, very sad

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GRO$$, Where do you live? In the US, that's very common. In Brazil and Canada, the teachers even ask our opinion! They only give the facts and let us analize them! My teacher of Social Studies even TOLD this to us. He only give us the facts but he NEVER passes his opinions (unless we ask him or he tells us that is his opinion...). Love, Nelson 12. ### GRO$$Registered Senior Member

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US.

Something that comes to mind is how often he is talking about a place and all of the sudden makes a grimace and sais "wow, this is a really nasty place to live. I would really hate to live here... chris, would you want to live in this nasty place?" he likes to then go through several students, thereby proving the point of how nasty of a place this is...

i find it quite ... dont know the word for it ... its annoying, as far as i think...

13. ### TruthSeekerFancy Virtual Reality MonkeyValued Senior Member

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Is the place allways outside the US?
Coincidently, my teacher told me exactly that today... teachers in US are used to do that...

Love,
Nelson

14. ### GRO$$Registered Senior Member Messages: 304 haha, yea... of course it is... nothing bad, evil, or negative can exist inside of the US... the US is the best place in the world... why would anyone want to live anywhere else? 15. ### TruthSeekerFancy Virtual Reality MonkeyValued Senior Member Messages: 15,162 Were you brainwashed or you are being sarcastic...? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! 16. ### GRO$$Registered Senior Member

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sarcastic, but it is not far from the truth... a surprisingly large percentage of the population believes exactly what i said.

17. ### TruthSeekerFancy Virtual Reality MonkeyValued Senior Member

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Yeah, I know...
An there are some here!!

18. ### TylerRegistered Senior Member

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Truthseeker: For one, teachers in Canada are not as bad as U.S., but still horrible. We're given the facts that they want us to have. Look at your civics text book. Two sentances on communism in a 180 page book about government and government history? Zero pages on Americans backing Nazi's? They tell you what they want you to know.

So your infinitely wise comment was that Marxism was not the base of Communist Russia? Oh bravo, should I repeat the '1 plus 1 equals 2' comment?

'That was EXACTLY my point!The ideologies are not applied. Instead, the ideas are twisted!'

That's an infinitely stupid comment. And sounds like a very Christian thing to say. 'No revising from the originator! You cannot change what has already been written!'

Marxist-Leninist theory is REVISED Marxism. That means they CHANGED IT. FOR A REASON. Lenin didn't think Marxism would work (incidentally, Marx didn't think Marxism would work). And besides that, the Manifesto doesn't even tell you how to run the government. It just says what Marx thinks the world is like at the point he wrote it and what he thinks will happen to change it.

You're original comment: 'America has done to democracy what old ussr did to communism'

Note, you used the word 'Communism'. NOT the word 'Marxism'.

Marxism and Communism are not interchangeable words. Only an idiot who hasn't read his communist history or theories would say that Marxism and Communism are the same thing. If you look in the dictionary, the three definitions are as follows:

"1) A theoretical economic system characterized by the collective ownership of property and by the organization of labor for the common advantage of all members.

2) a - A system of government in which the state plans and controls the economy and a single, often authoritarian party holds power, claiming to make progress toward a higher social order in which all goods are equally shared by the people.

b - The Marxist-Leninist version of Communist doctrine that advocates the overthrow of capitalism by the revolution of the proletariat"

In case you haven't noticed yet, the word Marxist-Leninist is used in there. NOT MARXIST!!!!!

Because COMMUNISM was BASED on MARXIST-LENINIST theory.

You have books to back up that communism wasn't based on Marxism? Are these books by chance entitled 'Tyler Cohen's Grade 7 History Class Notes'??? Because that's when I learned communism was based on Marxist-Leninist theory, not Marxism.

So let me get this straight and then tell you again how brilliant you are. Your comment ("But the democracy put in practice in the US is NOT this democracy. The same the old communism in the USSR...") was basically to say that Communist Russia was not based solely on Marxism and Democratic America was not based solely on Smithism? And you link these by saying thta both nations deviated from the original theories (ignoring that Smith was no where near the first democratical philosopher)?

Like I said, you jumped into a conversation between two physicists and said 'hey, did you know one plus one is two???'

19. ### TruthSeekerFancy Virtual Reality MonkeyValued Senior Member

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Tyler,

I know that... that's exactly what I said...
I dont' know why you allways repeat my own ideas...

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It was important to answer the question...
Come back and read the question...

Love,
Nelson

20. ### TylerRegistered Senior Member

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"In Brazil and Canada, the teachers even ask our opinion! They only give the facts and let us analize them!"

That's what you said. By the way, if you had any analyzational skills you would have noticed by now that the text books analyze things for you. So the canadian government does tell you your opinion.

And they dont give you all the facts.

21. ### TruthSeekerFancy Virtual Reality MonkeyValued Senior Member

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Both statements are correct...

What I said is that in US...

In Brazil and Canada...

Love,
Nelson

22. ### GRORegistered Senior Member

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thats sooo bad tho... america is being raised to be a very nationalistic, even anti-outsider country...

Europeans don't bathe enough and their women don't shave.
Russians/Chinese are damned sucker commies.
Chinese, Indians (from India) Africans are all starving and overpopulated.
Middle Easterners are all evil religious fanatics with guns that hate us for no reason.
Canadians are our backward neighbors, all they have are park rangers and large forest animals.
Mexicans are dirty and poor, only good for cutting lawns.

This is an exagerated view US has on the rest of the world...

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What this might lead to, in my opinion, is WW3...

23. ### TylerRegistered Senior Member

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And I'm telling you, the education in Canada is not that good! They don't give yo uall the facts!

I live in Canada man, and have all my life. Except one year!