is there free will in christianity

Hey hey hey, I did not call you nutter - I was specifically witting in response to the poster who is named Nutter

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

This thread is very disturbing. All the talk of a mean God. He loves you like a great Father loves his child whether you have decided to worship Him or not. He's given you plenty of chances to make the right decision. (Some people need more than one opportunity.) Some people convert after the "turn or burn" option, and some just choose to accept Him because they know in their heart it's the right thing to do.

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

There is a God. He is the great "I am". HE doesn't torture anyone. We make the choice where to spend eternity. Hell is eternal separation from Him. Heaven is eternity with him. It's our choice. I choose Him. :worship:

As far as mike's "I'd take my chances in hell before I committed to such a 'benevolent' god" -- be careful what you choose. There are no "chances" there. You just burn for eternity in a fiery pit with unquenchable thirst, gnashing and weeping. Not exactly a good choice. A minute in hell is like the worst day of your life times 1000.

God is a gentleman. He knocks on the door of your heart. If you answer and accept Him you go to Heaven. If you reject Him, you go to hell. It really is that simple.

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

Sorry, my mistake - I apologize!

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

Now you are putting the cart of fear before the horse of belief. People choice to believe or otherwise has nothing to do with the fear of Hell. If someone believes in Hell and fears it then they already believe in God. And if someone does not believe in God then why would they fear hell? You cannot fear something you do not believe exists.

Chances??? There is no element of chance involved. Hell either exists of it don't exist.

Human logic does not equate with God logic. I am not perfect so people rejecting me or forgiving me is different to the acceptance or rejection of God who is perfect.

Your not God. God is not human. Ones acceptance or rejection of God because of ones perception of His character will make not a dot of difference to the Will of God being fulfilled.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

that's OK - apology accepted

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

 

Thank you!

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

It really was an honest mistake on my part. I've not seen much of Nutter and forgot he/she was here. It looked like a reply to one of my posts just a couple back and that's what led to my error.

 

Isn't he some jealous god that would smite any infidels against his teachings or hold some thing higher than him/her? That's the picture I seem to get when reading about this Abrahamic god. Oh no I love money more than this god. I'm going to Hell (which is apparently in Netherlands).

 

He doesnt take rejection very well does he?

 

It's best to keep in mind that Yahweh is simply one rendition on God that was created by man. The Abrahamic God is simply a reflection of the people that endorsed him. The ancient hebrew priesthood...ultra patriarchial,xenophobic,harsh. Sound familiar ? Like a certain God perhaps?

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/research06.html

 

He has perpared a place for those who choose to obey and worship him. If you do not you choose to reside in a place without his goodness that is what hell is. My personal belief is that souls that do not make it to heaven are reduced to a low energy state or recycled in the next universe it does not really matter. I know that I am saved. I follow jesus because his way is the right path. Good christians make good neighbors. No one is able to follow him perfectly and all we can do is try to do better tommorow than we did today. God tried to make salvation a fair choice and some people like ungrateful children want to bargain or whine about the unfairness of the rules. I know that heaven is better than anything I can conceive of. I also know that if it was truly perfect satan would not have revolted. We are given the choice the decision is ours gods knowledge of the choice and our comprehension of the decision do not effect the fact that it is a choice. It is not about going to hell if you dont choose. It is I am going to heaven and there is always room for one more. Want to come?

 

Oh, great - so God has provided a way out of the eternal torture that he created and is threatening to send me to?

That's like me dowsing someone in gasoline and holding a lit match near them, but giving the person a spray bottle that they can use to extinguish my match before I set them on fire. Then I say "Look, I gave you a way out - all you have to do is use the spray bottle that I gave you! Aren't I a nice guy??? I mean here you are facing this terrible problem of being burnt alive, and fortunately I came along to save you by giving you that spray bottle! I am your savior! Isn't it clear how full of mercy and compassion I am? Seriously though, you had better use that spray bottle, because I am totally about to light you up..."

It's not like hell is some sort of natural hazard that people are in danger of wandering into that God has come along and helpfully chosen to save us from. He's the one who created the entire screwed-up system where even good people who spend their entire lives helping others and loving their fellow man go to hell by default! God's the one who created hell, and he's the one who chooses to send people there. If God didn't want people going to hell, he could always simply choose to not send people there.

 

It's absolutely amazing to me that you put those two thought together in the same post. God love us like a father loves his child, but he set up a universe in which most of us are destined to "burn for eternity in a fiery pit with unquenchable thirst, gnashing and weeping"? Do you really not see just a tiny bit of contradiction there? Yeah, it’s nice of God to provide us with a way out of the trap that he created, but I hardly think that qualifies him as “loving.” He’s the one who created the danger in the first place! Why would a loving god put everyone in such terrible danger?

And no, no one "chooses" to go to hell. If a person died and stood before God and said "No way - I just couldn't stand to spend eternity with you here in heaven. Please send me to hell instead." then you could argue that people choose to go to hell. The vast majority of people who would go to hell don't choose it, they simply go there by default for not believing in God/Jesus. Who set things up so that we all go to hell by default? Your "loving" God, of course.

You think God is like a father? I don’t know what your father was like, but I am very glad that my father didn’t deliberately throw me into incredibly dangerous situations that he had created. Of course, you might have had a much more “interesting” childhood than me.

 

Nasor makes an excellent point, and I'm glad he beat me to it because he said it better than I would have. What's being ignored (I would hope intentionally) by the theists whose arguments I've read is this; if an all-knowing and all-seeing God created your ability to choose and knew everything that you were going to choose the moment he instilled that ability in you, then how is he not responsible for sending people to hell?

 

Because there is not hell, except that one that the Iraqui people are living right now.

 

I think you nailed it with everything before the comma.

 

mmm, I don´t think so, it´s called karma

 

:crazy:

 

:m:

 

:bravo: touche! I almost wish I smoked, that way your reponse could be pertinent.

 

Awww it sounds sweet. However, I would like to ask you who it is in this world you love the most... Your mother? Your children perhaps?

Now I want you to consider what it's going to be like for you in heaven when you find out this person that you love the most is burning for eternity.

1) You wont care

2) You wont remember who they are

3) You will care

If 1 I'm glad we aint friends, if 2 I would argue as to the worth of heaven if you're not you, and don't remember your life and loved ones and if 3... well, then it's going to be as much torture for you as it is for them. They'll have the physical pain, you'll have the mental pain. Either way you're destined to eternal suffering.

What I don't get is why theists are just happy to espouse there being a hell and nobody ever asks god in their prayers to do away with the hell concept and instead think of something a little less severe. I think the theist actually enjoys the idea of people burning forever.