Is suicide painless?

[crazymikey]

You know, you should really to talk with a psychologist, because frankly you've got some strange ideas about why people kill themselves.

You know, you should not be so presumptious and act all-knowing, because these ACTUALLY are valid reasons if someone wants to kill themselves.

"you are bored/no drive to continue/don't fit in" are all abbreviated signs of depression (certainly psychological suffering)

False. If boredom is a sign of depression, then you could say, everyone is depressed, because people are bored regularly. When someone is completely bored of life, they need not be depressed, much like being bored normally, is not being depressed either. That's not psychological suffering.

Shortcut to the after life" would likely be a justification that an already clinically depressed and suicidal individual might give themselves to help them muster the initiative to go through with it.

You do not have to be depressed to kill yourself to get to the after life. You could happily just throw yourself of the roof of a high-rise building, thinking you will just wake up in a much better world. It really depends, on how strong your beliefs are, but it does not necessarily imply, you are depressed.

And killing yourself to save another only happens on TV, outside of maybe some rare situations in wars and the like, I don't think that this happens very often at all.

It happens, that's all you need to know. It's one reason, why people commit suicide.

Now, as for the suggestion that this boy might have considered killing himself instead, I'd just have to say that this is a completely despicable and unjustifiable point of view! Why in the world should he die just because this old man has made his own life and that of his family a living hell? I agree that the correct course of action would probably have been to first contact the authorities and get the old bastard locked away, however, regardless the act of murdering the old man was close to being heroic. His grandfather bought about his own murder, you don't screw with other people's lives like that without warranting punishment or retribution, that's why we have laws to prevent such things, and it's far better that this young man should have taken matters into his own hands to solve the problem, and give his grandfather what he had coming than to sit back and let it continue. It was certainly much better than taking himself out of the equation, now THAT would have been tragic, and senseless. To propose that if someone antagonizes you enough that you then are responsible to take your own life if you've got a problem with the situation is utterly absurd. I assume he was only trying to solve the problem in the only way that his shattered psyche would allow him, and more power too him I say!

You are soo opinionated. You have no right to make judgements about the boys actions, simply because, you were not subject to the emotions, thoughts, and experiences the boy was subjected too, to understand, why this boy may want to kill himself.
I can understand, why he may want to kill himself, going through such a traumatic and horrific life, and seeing nothing but hate and unjust, why would he want to live on, and for what? It's his choice ultimately, wether he lives on with his horrific past and dies later, or dies earlier.

I really do not understand your antagonism against suicide. You are going to die anyway one day, so what is the problem, in choosing that day. If it's your choice, to kill yourself, then nobody should stop you. Its irrelavant, what society thinks - society are a bunch of idiots anyway.

 

[Nasor]

Suicide is never understandable nor forgivable. There is always going to be someone out there, blinded by sadness and rage, to fully understand why you commited suicide in the first place. Those who are close to you and wanted you to live will find ways out of the situation which caused you to commit suicide and will always wonder why you never took that way out. They will find ways WHY you should live, HOW you could have stayed alive, Where you could have lived and so on. They would wonder why you never came to them, why you never sought help (even if you did), and what they could have done to prevent it. No matter what the circumstances are there will be people who will think this and who will grieve over your death for a long time after you die. So, no it is not understandable nor forgivable by everyone.

There are many cases in which any reasonable person would consider suicide to be a perfectly rational and justified decision. If someone I loved had a choice between living for a few months (or years) in constant pain or ending their life immediately, I couldn't really fault them for choosing suicide.

 

[Ozymandias]

If someone I loved had a choice between living for a few months (or years) in constant pain or ending their life immediately, I couldn't really fault them for choosing suicide.

Is there some significance here about this person being a loved one? Would it not be okay if you didn't love them? I'm just not catching the significance of the example being someone you loved ...

 

[Mystech]

For anyone who is diluted enough to believe that suicide is a choice that any rational person comes to (the very idea of that is contradictory as suicide is inherently irrational) rather than a desicion made out of desperation as the result of an alterd and depressed psychological state, I'd suggest you take a look at a few of these links: http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/sommerb/taskforce/depressw.html

I'd reccomend especialy that you take a look at this informative pdf

Suicide is not something people do just because they’re kind of bored. One does not come to a point in their life where they feel utterly spent and unable to move on, preferring instead to die, without being in a state of consciousness severely altered by depression or desperation.

Furthermore I still have no idea at all what suicide has to do with the topic of this thread.

 

[one_raven]

Suicide is never understandable nor forgivable. There is always going to be someone out there, blinded by sadness and rage....

I think that entire post is an awfully selfish and self-absorbed point-of-view.

I have had friends that have committed suicide, and nothing pissed me off more than those that complained about how it made the survivors feel.
I prefer to consider how the person that killed him/herself felt to drive them to this.
What is unforgivable is viewing this as something that has TO BE forgiven at all, let alone not being able TO forgive them.
If someone you loved committed suicide and all you could think about is how YOU feel about them and how YOU miss them, and what they did TO YOU, then I don't think you truly understand what it means to love someone.
You didn't love that person, you posessed them because you like the way they made YOU feel when you were with them.
There is a difference.
One is selfless love for another being.
The other is self-absorbed love for one's self.

I am always dismayed at how many people disagree with me about this.

 

[Nasor]

Is there some significance here about this person being a loved one? Would it not be okay if you didn't love them? I'm just not catching the significance of the example being someone you loved.

I was responding specifically to Vortox, who said that the people who know a suicide victim usually won't be able to accept their decision and will be, as he put it, "blinded by sadness and rage." I assumed he was talking about the loved-ones of the person who commits suicide, since presumably the suicide of casual acquaintances or stranger wouldn’t provoke such an extreme reaction.

 

[crazymikey]

For anyone who is diluted enough to believe that suicide is a choice that any rational person comes to (the very idea of that is contradictory as suicide is inherently irrational) rather than a desicion made out of desperation as the result of an alterd and depressed psychological state, I'd suggest you take a look at a few of these links: http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/sommerb/taskforce/depressw.html

It's clear rubbish. A rational person could choose suicide, and it could be a rational decision.

Suicide is not something people do just because they’re kind of bored. One does not come to a point in their life where they feel utterly spent and unable to move on, preferring instead to die, without being in a state of consciousness severely altered by depression or desperation.

You are sadly mistaken then. As people can become bored, or tire of life, as life has no meaning whatsoever, meaning is only fabricated, so if somone wakes up, and decides, their life is nothing more than a grande illusion, or cosmic joke, or are finding life to be empty and useless, and and decides to end it, then it's their choice, and its not an entirely irrational decision to make.

As I said, they will die one day anyway, so why not, choose that day themselves. Can't really say they are missing out on anything. If they lived, all they would have lived for, would be a fabrication. When they are dead, that's it they're gone, total cessation, and no sense, to sense what they have missed, or what the hypocritical socieity are spouting about them.

You have no right, to deny anyone the right, to end their own life. It's their life, and as long as they respect the right of others to choose their own existence, more power to them.

 

[Mystech]

So you're telling me that I'm wrong, but then stating that if someone woke up with a sudden judgement impairing emotional wave of despair and took their own life that that would be entirely rational and reasonable? You do realize that you're an idiot don't you? I can only hope that you suddenly awaken to the idea that your entire life is a meaningless joke.

 

[rainbow__princess_4]

People seem to be confused over whether you mean emotional or physical pain, and if its the pain of the suicide-ee or their family. If you drank a whole of of sulphuric acid then it will hurt a hell of a lot before you die, i know I've tasted it... ouch! Throwing yourself of a 30 storey building it not supposed to hurt at all. You can't feel emotional pain if you're dead, and your family are of course. So what was the actual question?

 

[one_raven]

So you're telling me that I'm wrong, but then stating that if someone woke up with a sudden judgement impairing emotional wave of despair and took their own life that that would be entirely rational and reasonable?

What if they took their time and came to a rational decision that their life is pointless and meaningless?
What if they were of sound mind, and simply came to the realization that the absurdists and nihilists were right?
Does that mean they are insane?
Maybe they think you are insane for not undertsanding the truth.
Who are you to tell them that they are wrong?

Also, what if that pain was not a simple passing despair?
If someone lived in horrible pain (physical and/or emotional) and, after many years of trying, could not end the pain?
Are they wrong for taking their life after every other "rational" attempt to end the suffering failed?

 

[Nasor]

For anyone who is diluted enough to believe that suicide is a choice that any rational person comes to (the very idea of that is contradictory as suicide is inherently irrational) rather than a desicion made out of desperation as the result of an alterd and depressed psychological state, I'd suggest you take a look at a few of these links: http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/sommerb/taskforce/depressw.html

I'd reccomend especialy that you take a look at this informative pdf

Suicide is not something people do just because they’re kind of bored. One does not come to a point in their life where they feel utterly spent and unable to move on, preferring instead to die, without being in a state of consciousness severely altered by depression or desperation.

I disagree. It's possible for a coldly rational person to weigh the pros and cons of continuing to live and decide that suicide is the best option. Of course anyone who reaches such a decision is likely to be in an extremely distressed emotional state, but that doesn't necessarily mean that their decision isn't a legitimate one. Not all people who chose suicide are influenced by mental illness or unbalanced brain chemistry.

Furthermore I still have no idea at all what suicide has to do with the topic of this thread.

You might be right about that.

 

[crazymikey]

Mystech, don't call me the idiot, i'm not the self-absorbed and self-centered ego maniac, that thinks people have to abide by my opinions. You call it a sudden judgement impairing emotional wave of despair? Well that's quite literally rubbish. Making the decision to end ones life, is a difficult one, and it tests all the limits we have, when we make it.

And don't give me the bullshit, that life has meaning. You're life is as meaningless, as is mine, and others. As you are obviously completely inconsiderate, i'll spell it out to you, some of us, have everything, happiness, love, friends, wealth, yet we still feel we have nothing, and this nothing stays with us for the rest of our lives, and while we have happiness, love, friends, welath, we still feel pain, the pain of the nothing. Some of us then opt for suicide, and some of us, put on a front, and lie to ourselves for the rest of our lives.

I don't really care what you have to say, you're obviously an ignorant person, who thinks the universe revolves around them, with utter disregard for others, and their thoughts and philosophies. The objective truth is this, you don't matter, on any scale. You inhabit a small little world, and you're trapped in it. Otherwise, there is little difference between you, and an ant, and the ant has no purpose - unless being crushed by us is a purpose. So why do you? Because you think you are special? Now that's a joke.

 

[Mystech]

I don't really care what you have to say, you're obviously a ignorant person, who thinks the universe revolves around them, with utter disregard for others, and their thoughts and philosophies. The objective truth is this, you don't matter, on any scale. You inhabit a small little world, and you're trapped in it. Otherwise, there is little difference between you, and an ant, and the ant has no purpose, so why do you? Because you think you are special? Now that's a joke.

I don't think I'll be responding to you any more on this subject. It's entirely out of the scope of the original post on this thread to begin with, and you've clearly got some issues you need to work out for yourself anyhow.

 

[one_raven]

I am not sure why people keep say this has nothing to do with the original post.
The original post is specifically about suicide and when/whether it is acceptible.

Suicide IS the topic of this thread.

 

[crazymikey]

You have no choice Mystech, nor am I interested in discussing this subject with you, as you too opinionated and ignorant. I don't have the issues, I am just being real, which does not imply I am going to kill myself anytime soon. You, on the other hand, have the issues of facing reality. So have fun in the fantasy world you have created for yourself.

 

[rainbow__princess_4]

I am not sure why people keep say this has nothing to do with the original post.
The original post is specifically about suicide and when/whether it is acceptible.[/QUOTE]
This is NOT the point at all! If you would actually READ the original post, you can clearly see that it is saying that in a desperate situation murder can seem the only way out, they then say "but what about suicide"? Is it true that suicide also appears an option, or not? Nothing about whether its acceptable or not idiot!

 

[Mystech]

So have fun in the fantasy world you have created for yourself.

My fantasy world in which people don't just skip merrily down the street humming a great oldie and then suddenly come to the conclusion that they must kill themselves for no reason? Ok, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one, then.

I’m sorry about all the things that I’ve said on this subject so far, and it certainly was a dirty trick of me to back up my claims by providing you with resources from knowledgeable psychological associations who have studied suicide quite in depth. I’m especially sorry for that one.

 

[one_raven]

they then say "but what about suicide"? Is it true that suicide also appears an option, or not? Nothing about whether its acceptable or not idiot!

I did read the original thread.
Maybe you should read it again...

When is suicide understandable?
Even forgivable?
what level of psychological suffering must one reach before it's okay to off oneself?

When is it understandable?
When is it forgivable?
When is it OK?

The point is, she pointed out a situation in which the shrink testified that people feel like their only option is murder.
She asked, in a similar situation, should suicide be seen as a viable option to murder as a way out of the situation.

I don't appreciate being called an idiot.
If you posted because you wanted to discuss this with me, then that will not help.
If you posted simply to insult me with with no intention of having a discussion, you can go fuck yourself.

 

[Dr Lou Natic]

Yeah

Hey heres something for bored people to figure out;
is it suicide, if you get nude and run around on the african savahnah, expecting to be killed by hyenas or lions, but not letting them kill you, like running away from them and struggling to the end?
You're not killing yourself, or even letting yourself be killed exactly, but rather putting yourself in a position where it is likely you will be killed, is this suicide?
If so, I plan on committing "suicide" as soon as I begin to feel the symptoms of lung cancer.
I think it will be the most exiting few hours of my life. I'm looking forward to it.
I'm serious too, like this is no joke, I'm going to have an "africa fund" and save money for a trip to africa. Once there I will all alone stalk the african plains, actually trying to survive, but being a solitary human, ravaged with cancer(I assume) I won't last long.
I really hope I don't die before then in some lame way like a "car wreck"
One thing for sure is I won't die of lung cancer, nothing is supposed to experience such a horrible death as that.
What we percieve as 'natural causes'(slowly dieing a painful death on a bed over weeks or even years, while feeling humiliated as your loved ones watch on) is the most unnatural death imaginable.
As soon as your stride is laboured, its time to go. I can't wait to feel that bite on my ass, as a hyena struggles to pull me down to the ground where he can tear me apart and eat me alive.
If its wrong avoiding a "natural"(sic) death on a death bed then I want to be wrong.
If I wasn't big on the romanticism of being "picked off the herd" by a predator then I would almost certainly end my life with a gun shot wound to the head.
Why lie around waiting to gradually die? I don't think people understand how terrible that would be.
Edit; Also it is totally illogical. We fear dieing so much that we make sure we live as long as possible even if it hurts, we make it the law that people live as long as possible even if it hurts. We know they will die in a few months but we demand that they suffer for those few months right untill the end.
Its darkly comical. In real life dark comedy is sad.

 

[one_raven]

We fear dieing so much that we make sure we live as long as possible even if it hurts, we make it the law that people live as long as possible even if it hurts. We know they will die in a few months but we demand that they suffer for those few months right untill the end.
Its darkly comical. In real life dark comedy is sad.

It is disgusting.

By the way...
Why go to Africa?
From what I hear the Australian Bush is about as difficult (if not moreso) to survive than the Serebgetti.