is suicide a civilised act ?

Banshee,
I know those words so well and seeing them written down gives me goose bumps! I send love to you!.

*stRgrL*
The color thing's easy I'll send you a PM right now, Oh and by the way The Phil Collins fact is fact as a matter of fact. I quite like him but then as I've said before I'm mentally unstable


Big lurve

 

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Thanx Bbcboy. I send a lot of love back to you...

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Banshhe...
Quite peculiar. As I read your floyd quote (and burn my breakfast) I am listening to Shine On on Echoes.

On the civility of suicide.

It comes down to the individuals perception of taking one's own life. Is it murder? Is the cessation of any life by anyone murder?

If not then suicide could, I suppose, be civilized.

If, as most believe, suicide is murder, then a civilized society cannot condone it.




There is no pain, you are receding.
A distant ship smoke on the horizon.
You are only coming through in waves.
Your lips move, but I cannot hear what you're saying.
...I have become comfortably numb.

 

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There you go. With that quote you precisely express what happens when someone is depressed and under influence of medication. Someone who is losing contact with his/herself, surrounding and loved ones. Someone completely lonesome...

It is no excuse for taking your own life. Never!

Life comes through in waves also. You get your good and your 'numb' periods in life. Up to you to handle this. In the right way, not by giving up on life.

It's society and civilization that make humans lonesome and desperate. Humans should have more consideration with eachother. Be less cold and more interested! Have more heart, so to say. Civilized anti-depression medication only makes humans drift away farther and more desperate in the end.

Believe me, I know where I am coming from. I've had those desperate time periods in life and have thought about taking my own life. Seriously thought about it! I am painfully aware of the cold and loneliness inside and will never forget that feeling...

Guess my life and way of feeling or whatever, helped me through anyway. Don't know how to explain it. It happened to me, several times...

 

I know i feel there is no good reason to take your own life NOW.

I felt nothing like that then. I felt depressed, and isolated and i would have given ANYTHING for the world to go away. I could talk to my friend but there was nothing he could do to pull me back, he could only sit and watch as i sliped deeper and deeper. It started out that i would just pray that God would kill me. This went on for months and months before i sank even deeper into depression. One day i was sitting in my room thinking about what it would be like to die when i suddenly when looking for my poket knife. I gess God wanted me alive because i couldn't find it all i could find was a compass. I tried to slice my wrists with it but it was to small. So if not for luck (or God) i wouldn't be here at all.

 

Guess you're right Asguard. Something stands between the suicide and you in such a moment. Call it god or the Cosmos.

The fact that you didn't succeed in it and I didn't succeed in it, was because the opportunity was interrupted. Not the right tool, a friend who comes by at that particular moment.

I just went to sleep, with a high dose of sleeping pills and something even more bad, in my blood. To not wake up any more. Well, I woke up anyway. Was not happy with it at the moment, didn't want to do it again also.

There are people who do succeed and it's a shame it has to happen.

So love yourself every day, for you are worth it, your life is worth living it and you are important. As every human is. Nobody is on Earth without a reason...

 

Is Suicide Civilized?


So far as I know, the only species OTHER than man that committs suicide are lemmings, small scandinavian rodent (and only when they begin to severely impact their environment, ie: too little food...).

As to addressing thequestion from our posers point of view, it is NOTHING.

IF you have been diagnosed with COPD (chronic obstructive pulmonary disease--or any other terminal disease), have slowly degenerated over a decade until you require oxygen on a constant basis, and then take an airplane ride and "catch a cold" because the airlines are TOO cheap to put in a machine that would cost 90 cents a passenger/yr, which confines you to bed for the REST of what remains of your life, after having lead a very phyiscally active life, then, yes, I consider, rational, considered, responsible suicide, HIGHLY civilized.

For the Attorney General to dictate states rights (by threatening to remove perscriptive rights of phyisicians) based on his particular brand of hypocritical morality, as John Ashcorft did in Oregon last fall, I find it disgusting as well as a willful violation of the separation of church and state (his particular brand of morality being based on hypocritical protestantism, in which he illegally compells his staff to participate in daily prayer meetings).

Now for a depressed psychotic teenager (most are do to hormone imbalances, actually) to do it mostly due to parental neglect, and boredom, this I find to be a WASTE, but I find the similarity between lemmings and most humans growing greater as I grow older.

 

The Lemmings are already mentioned, in a former post in this thread. You see a similarity between Lemmings and humans? How? Should humans go and dive into the Seas every so often?

Yeah, it is a thought! It would sure bring the population of humankind in perspective. There are much to many humans walking down on this Earth.

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I don't have a thing to do with the church, it is the mentality of things like godbelieving and other so called civilized institutions that drive humans to suicide, by forcing their opinion to them. I have to say I really hate it.

As far as the diseases go, you are talking about. Then it becomes a whole different issue. Humans who have to live like that, should have a choice if they want to go on living or want to stop their lifes. Guess that is something else! Not the original suicide thoughts of healthy humans who have difficulties with their lifes at the moment, caused by depression which are related to the institutions like church, parenthood and others who have an effect on their getting so depressed and desperate that they are willing to die because of it.

You have good points there Mrk...

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I suspect that if anti-aging research achieves its objectives and provides us with the ability to live indefinitely then I suspect that suicide will become the most common form of death.

Is this civilized? Yes I think so since it represents the ultimate act of freedom that an individual can assert.

Cris

 

Anti-aging and live forever is certainly an 'amusing' invention of this 'civilized' society yes. If you call it civilized in that perspective, guess you are right.

Ridiculous! Freedom??? What kind of freedom is this??? Artificial freedom!!!

Isn't there enough artificial garbage in this society already? Human bodies are loaded with modified, artificial garbage now-a-days. All the Inner Senses disappear because of it. You think that is good?

It is un-natural.

Guess I don't even want to live in such a 'civilization'. Humanity gets numb yes, then. And then it becomes reality: No thoughts to think, no feelings left, no tears to cry...

How civilized! The great inventors better find something to save humans from starvation and stop warfare in stead of inventing a pill to live forever.

Who wants to live forever...

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( reminds me of the movie Highlander)

 

Thank you Banshee

As to MRK i object to you asuming you know my mind and body. My parents have VERY little to do with me trying to kill myself, infact there only problem was being to blind to realise i was depressed. They are loving and care for me deeply. As to your dismisal of me as a hormone riddled teanager i ask you "were you ever there? did it cause you to try to die?" if the answer is NO then i gess i must have other reasons musn't I. Please DON'T comment on my life without Knowledge of me. It offends me greatly.

 

hi all the contrbutors, being this thread starter i request all to read the thread start message and review ur thoughts and then please send to me or to this thread.

 

I don't think life is nothing (at least not now) but then death isn't as important as everyone thinks either its just a natural progression from life. I think this anwers your statement.

 

Suicide is a civilised act in this civilization! It's this civilization, or society, which brings humans to commit suicide.

Death belongs to life, it is the Natural end of a life-time. Even if it comes unexpected like in a traffic accident.

Life is valuable. You have to try to make it worthwhile. So Love yourself and others as much as yourself and don't let others drive you 'insane', so to say.

Guess that's easier said then done...

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It's not easy, banging your heart against some mad buggers wall!!

 

So true Banshee

id just like to add that if you consider our socaity civilised then yes it must be because youth suicide (the one that effcts me the most but i think the other rates are the same) rate is increasing every year

Dont we love our socaity our youth (me included) want to get out as early as we can

 

Banshee

originally posted by Banshee

I disagree.

A big part of the causes and run up to suicide is the reduction of oneself to a basic form inside.
The incidents which push one to suicide also affect the human mind to the point where feelings, actions, causality and consideration are muted.
This removes the mind making the decision on suicide from he 'civilised' aspect of humanity.
(Broadly speaking, of course. There may be individual instances where this mechanism is not the case).

PAL

 

Yes, I have to admit you make a good point here. Thinking about what you say, you are right. Can say nothing more then simply. you are right.

Totally overlooked that state of mind which can turn to such despair and pain on its own without influence from this so called civilization.

I still keep the feeling that it can be changed, if only we would take more care of our fellow-humans and pay more attention to their feelings. Perhaps that's a personal feeling. Can't put my finger on it exactly...

 

posted by Banshee
I still keep the feeling that it can be changed, if only we would take more care of our fellow-humans and pay more attention to their feelings. Perhaps that's a personal feeling. Can't put my finger on it exactly...


I think I know what you mean.
The problem for the affected individual is that no matter how empathic his peers are, they can't seem to make a difference.

Everyone around wants to make some improvement in the life of the one who is suffering. My thing is that they are suffering because those people can't make that difference. The lines are down and the connection can't get thru.
Does that make sense?
When I have black days they seem to be very selfish and if those around me don't act in a certain, definite way I just want them out of my face. It makes life very difficult for the people around me. I see it happening and I just feel like I can't do anything to stop it, as much as I want to and so the loop of frustration continues.

It gets right on my tits

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Yes, there you are right.

On dark days and being in a bad mood, I just say so and everybody keeps their distance. I am not reasonable if I really get dark.

Try to be as friendly as possible, it doesn't work out al the time though...

 

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... nothing gives birth to everything and everything is nothing...
That's right... but that's a whole new thread...

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Hummm... It depends of your concept of what is civilised...
Eventhough you have the decision of suicide, what is literally civilised, who said that civilisation is a good thing? We think a buch of bad things for us... it's civilised... but I don't know why we think of them if we are "intelligent"...
...Or at least we were suposed to be...

If civilised, for you, is organization... or what's better for you... then I guess it's not civilised...

Love,
Nelson