Is Science a value system?

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As I said, and as has been stubbornly ignored by our philosophical dreamer, for those that see science as giving no benefits, Let them find an isolated Island somewhere, let them go there, without any mod cons, not even cooking utensils.
Let them do there best to live out their lives, as best they can, in such an environment.

Many people happily live on islands without modern conveniences or scientific innovations. All it takes is knowledge and skill in relying on and using raw materials and natural resources. Most your wondrous conveniences rely entirely on electricity and fuel of some sort, something that would be lacking on an isolated island anyway. Technology assumes a societal infrastructure of energy generation in order to be useful. It assumes a reliance on factories and stores where such gadgets and their parts can be manufactured, purchased, and serviced. Without all of this most all technology would be useless if not totally nonexistent. Let's see YOU survive on an isolated island with your refrigerator, your computer, your car, your electrical lights, your radio and TV, your microwave oven, your air conditioner, and your hairdryer. None of that would be of any use to you.
 
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Let's see YOU survive on an isolated island with your refrigerator, your computer, your car, your electrical lights, your radio and TV, your microwave oven, your air conditioner, and your hairdryer. None of that would be of any use to you.
It would to me; I'd bring my solar power system. (Well, everything but the hairdryer and TV; not much use to me even now.)
 
Many people happily live on islands without modern conveniences or scientific innovations. All it takes is knowledge and skill in relying on and using raw materials and natural resources. Most your wondrous conveniences rely entirely on electricity and fuel of some sort, something that would be lacking on an isolated island anyway. Technology assumes a societal infrastructure of energy generation in order to be useful. Without it most all technology would be useless. Let's see YOU survive on an isolated island with your refrigerator, your computer, your car, your electrical lights, your radio and TV, your microwave oven, and your hairdryer. None of that would be of any use to you.


Ahaa! At last an answer!!!
Firstly let me get to the scenario of living on an Island. Yes, I have done that! Only for six weeks but I certainly have done it. An Island called Nananu I Ra in the Fijian group of Islands, in the early eighties, and there was no electricity.
But still we used [and the locals used] the science of reason, and experiment etc. It's called the scientific method and actually comes quite naturally to thinking people.
Science is organized knowledge and the systematic classification of experience, as much as you may try and deny that fact.
Yes they have electricity now, and a luxury resort and phones and fridges etc etc . They live far better now then before, due to the coming of electricity and other benefits of science...far more comfortable...better fishing methods...better farming...better knowledge...better science.
Other questions you have conveniently side-stepped.
Is this philosophical nonsense you are preaching like a religion, just an excuse to be controversial? and to maybe hone your debating skills?
Because in essence, it certainly is not based on fact! That's 100% certain!
Why do you ignore the obvious, and the obvious advantages of science?
A well know Philosopher once said.
"Science is what you know. Philosophy is what you don't know".
:Bertrand Russell:
 
Yes they have electricity now, and a luxury resort and phones and fridges etc etc . They live far better now then before, due to the coming of electricity and other benefits of science...far more comfortable...better fishing methods...better farming...better knowledge...better science.

I see. So NOW where talking NOT an isolated island, but one connected to societal infrastructure to the mainland by things like ships and planes. One that has stores and a power grid and gas stations with roads and cars and McDonald's and lots of other people who can help you out. Nice shift of the goal posts there. I have to be isolated. You get to go to a resort in Fiji. lol! No...we're talking the same exact conditions here. No civilization. Just a deserted isolated island and yourself. I would be fine. You'd be a floundering nutcase.
 
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I see. So NOW where talking NOT an isolated island, but one connected to societal infrastructure to the mainland by things like ships and planes. One that has stores and a power grid and gas stations with roads and cars and McDonald's and lots of other people who can help you out. Nice shift of the goal posts there. I have to be isolated. You get to go to a resort in Fiji. lol! No...we're talking the same exact conditions here. No civilization. Just a deserted isolated island and yourself. I would be fine. You'd be a floundering nutcase.


Are you being purposely obtuse? Or does this just come naturally?
I did also say......
An Island called Nananu I Ra in the Fijian group of Islands, in the early eighties, and there was no electricity.
But still we used [and the locals used] the science of reason, and experiment etc. It's called the scientific method and actually comes quite naturally to thinking people.
Science is organized knowledge and the systematic classification of experience, as much as you may try and deny that fact.

PLEASE NOTE: NO ELECTRICITY AT THE TIME I WAS THERE!!!!!!!
 
Are you being purposely obtuse? Or does this just come naturally?
I did also say......
An Island called Nananu I Ra in the Fijian group of Islands, in the early eighties, and there was no electricity.
But still we used [and the locals used] the science of reason, and experiment etc. It's called the scientific method and actually comes quite naturally to thinking people.
Science is organized knowledge and the systematic classification of experience, as much as you may try and deny that fact.

PLEASE NOTE: NO ELECTRICITY AT THE TIME I WAS THERE!!!!!!!

So you WEREN'T living on all the technological conveniences you are claiming are so necessary for survival? You were relying on the practical knowledge and skill of other people who knew how to survive without science. How to fish and grow food. How to build a fire and a shelter. How to dig a well for water. NOT science. Just primitive survival know-how. So you're living proof you CAN live on island, though not an isolated one, with other people, without science. Thanks for confirming that.
 
So you WEREN'T living on all the technological conveniences you are claiming are so necessary for survival? You were relying on the practical knowledge and skill of other people who knew how to survive without science. How to fish and grow food. How to build a fire and a shelter. How to dig a well for water. NOT science. Just primitive survival know-how. So you're living proof you CAN live on island, with other people, without science. Thanks for confirming that.

But it is science!!You are just plainly being obtuse.
Science is organized knowledge and the systematic classification of experience, as much as you may try and deny that fact.
Got it?
 
Science is organized knowledge and the systematic classification of experience, as much as you may try and deny that fact.

No it isn't. People have been organizing knowledge and classifying their experiences long before science came along. Cultures have been handing down methods and skills and techniques for survival that preceded science for ages. It's simple practical how-to knowledge, like how to build a house or how to fish or how to cook. It's not science. It's culture:


    • Culture is the sum total of the learned behavior of a group of people that are generally considered to be the tradition of that people and are transmitted from generation to generation.
 
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No it isn't. People have been organizing knowledge and classifying their experiences long before science came along. Cultures have been handing down methods and skills and techniques for survival that preceded science for ages. It's simple practical how-to knowledge, like how to build a house or how to fish or how to cook. It's not science.


Yes it is. And people far more advanced in knowledge, acknowledge that fact.
But you keep up with your philosophical claptrap. It won't change a thing, nor change or eliminate the continued benefits of science.
Have a good day. I'm off on Important leisure time.
 
Yes it is. And people far more advanced in knowledge, acknowledge that fact.

Once again, you're offering no reasoned counterarguments to my points. You just keep repeating the same assertion over and over. You're a waste of my time. I think I'm done with you here.
 
Once again, you're offering no reasoned counterarguments to my points. You just keep repeating the same assertion over and over. You're a waste of my time. I think I'm done with you here.

You mean as opposed to your own opinionated philosophical clap trap?
You still stand there and deny that astronomy/cosmology and our space endeavours has not, does not benefit mankind?
No you are wrong. I have plenty of reasoned arguments....They just don't bear out your agenda.
 
To all and sundry...
dmoe is an old infatuated friend of mine, who has had a few threads moved to the fringe sections and who has trouble sometimes accepting that most of my opinions align with accepted science.
dmoe, is also a anti science sympathiser who rejects the BB, and has trouble interpreting correctly, many factual scenarios re astronomy/cosmology particularly where I am involved. :)
His involvement of late has been absent. Perhaps he took my previous advice of taking an aspro and having a good lay down. :)
It appears for his own good, he should do it again. Just trying to help dmoe.

ASTRO BOY was my handle on another forum, of which I am still a member.
His weird sense of humour in raising that is only known to himself.

...casting aspersions...unsupported accusations...

...and who, exactly, is this "all and sundry"??

uatoabh!!!
 
...casting aspersions...unsupported accusations...

...and who, exactly, is this "all and sundry"??

uatoabh!!!

No, just the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, with regards to yourself. And that can obviously be supported by others here, that were a witness to your less then adult antics in the past.

Now please dmoe, you are side tracking the issue here.
If you want to express your usual anti science sentiment, go ahead. And the usual reputable people will show you up for what you are.
Or alternatively, go back into hibernation.
I don't really care my ol mate. ;)
 
No, just the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, with regards to yourself. And that can obviously be supported by others here, that were a witness to your less then adult antics in the past.

Now please dmoe, you are side tracking the issue here.
If you want to express your usual anti science sentiment, go ahead. And the usual reputable people will show you up for what you are.
Or alternatively, go back into hibernation.
I don't really care my ol mate. ;)


still...uatoabh!!!

...presume...assume...

...still...
 
How Astronomy Benefits Society and Humankind:
bySHANNON HALLonNOVEMBER 11, 2013


Industry

— Your iPhone’s camera is a charge-coupled device (CCD) — an instrument, which converts the movement of electrical charge into a digital value. Originally developed for astronomy, CCD’s are now used in most cameras, webcams and cell phones.

The computer language Forth, originally developed for the 36-foot telescope on Kitt Peak is now used by FedEx to track packages.

AT&T uses IRAF — software written by the National Optical Astronomy Observatory — to analyze computer systems.

Kodak film, originally created by astronomers studying the sun, is used extensively by the medical and industrial industries, photographers and artists.

Aerospace

— Space-based telescopes have advanced defense satellites, which require identical technology and hardware.

— Global Positioning System satellites rely on astronomical objects — quasars and distant galaxies — to determine accurate positions.

Energy

— Technology gained from imaging X-rays is now used to monitor fusion — where two atomic nuclei combine to form a heavier nucleus — that may prove to be our answer for clean energy.

Medicine


Magnetic resonance imaging utilizes aperture synthesis – first an astronomical technique and now a medical technique.

Astronomy struggles to see increasingly faint objects; Medicine struggles to see things obscured within the human body.


Aperture synthesis — the process of combining data from multiple telescopes to produce a single image seemingly created from a telescope the size of the entire collection — first developed by a radio astronomer has been used for multiple medical imaging tools, including CAT scanners and MRIs.


Building space-based telescopes requires an extremely clean environment in order to avoid dust particles from obscuring the mirrors or instruments. Similar methods and instruments are now used in hospitals and pharmaceutical labs.


International Collaboration

— Collaboration also inspires competition. The Space Race — a competition between the Soviet Union and the United States for supremacy in space exploration — landed Neil Armstrong, Michael Collins and Buzz Aldrin on the moon.

Astronomy is a collaborative effort. In 1887 astronomers from around the world pooled their telescope images in order to create the first map of the entire sky. Today, astronomers travel around the globe to attend conferences, learn from one another, and utilize telescopes elsewhere.

Everyday Life

— Airports utilize advances in technology designed for astronomy. X-ray observatory technology is used in X-ray luggage belts. A gas chromatograph — an instrument designed for a Mars mission — is used to analyze luggage for explosives.

— Stephen Hawking’s “A Brief History of Time” has sold over 10 million copies. Carl Sagan’s television series “Cosmos: A Personal Voyage” has been watched in over 60 countries.

Humankind

“Perhaps the most important reason to study astronomy is that astronomy seeks to satisfy our fundamental curiosity about the world we live in, and answer the ‘big’ questions,” Dr. Rosenberg told Universe Today. “How was the universe created? Where did we come from? Are there other intelligent life forms?”

Every advance in astronomy moves society closer to being able to answer these questions. With advanced technology — increasingly complex CCDs and larger ground- and space-based telescopes — we have peered into the distant, early universe, we have searched for habitable worlds, and we have come to the conclusion that we, ourselves, are stardust.

“Astronomy constantly reminds people of two seemingly contradictory things. First that the universe is infinite and we are of but the tiniest fraction of importance. And Second that life is rare and precious. A home as beautiful and unique as earth does not come often. We must protect it.”

An upcoming version of this paper will not only cover the tangible aspects of astronomy discussed here, but also the intangible aspects of astronomy.

The paper has been accepted has been published on the International Astronomical Union website and is available for download here.


http://www.universetoday.com/106302/how-astronomy-benefits-society-and-humankind/


And most Importantly and my own thoughts, it has helped us recognise our non special, insignificant part we are within the Universe.
We have gone from being a Flat Earth, in a geocentric Universe revolving around us, to a heliocentric solar system, situated in the outer suburban arms of an average galaxy, part of an even more average group of galaxies, within a web/wall of galaxies all under gravity's domination, within an observable Universe a paltry 96 billion L/years in diameter, being a part of a Universe incomprehensible in size and probably near infinite.



And yet we have the would be's if they could be's, the insufferable God Botherers, and the general run of the mill, anti science crank, spewing their venom against science.
One could ask, why are they here?
[1]Science has helped rid the world of many scourges, such as the ruling overall might of the church.
[2] It has revealed reality over myth, and given us on Earth a truer perspective of ourselves.
[3]Try living in a world without science and we would be back in the dark ages.
 
No, just the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, with regards to yourself. And that can obviously be supported by others here, that were a witness to your less then adult antics in the past.

Now please dmoe, you are side tracking the issue here.
If you want to express your usual anti science sentiment, go ahead. And the usual reputable people will show you up for what you are.
Or alternatively, go back into hibernation.
I don't really care my ol mate. ;)

From at least posts #161-173 seem to be well thought out pad ...whats the problem ?
 
And yet we have the would be's if they could be's, the insufferable God Botherers, and the general run of the mill, anti science crank, spewing their venom against science.
One could ask, why are they here?
[1]Science has helped rid the world of many scourges, such as the ruling overall might of the church.
[2] It has revealed reality over myth, and given us on Earth a truer perspective of ourselves.
[3]Try living in a world without science and we would be back in the dark ages.

Venom against science .....really pad , is that you think some of us are ....?

You are wrong , so wrong
 
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