Rape isn't so rife, though. Even in the animal kingdom, females of the species usually do want to attract mates and have sex. Rape is the less desirable exception here, not the rule. Voluntary sex is the rule. Probably rape was useful only in situations where group survival was under threat and it may well have been about power then. Especially for the chimps; for them everything is about power. The same holds true for gorillas, if you study their social dynamics. Dogs too. Since we aren't living in that state anymore, rape is pretty aberrant... the sexual aspect can be sated in less riskier ways, therefore we may well say it is and always will be about power.
Rapists are actually quite a lot like bullies in some respects. Bullies believe that they have higher social rank than their victim because they have the ability to control or hurt their victim in some way. They believe that being nice, cooperative or respectful toward other people is inherently submissive behavior, and they find it to be incredibly revolting in people of the same sex. They see it as playing some kind of competitive sport and losing it on purpose, and they see it almost as "cheating" if you get your way through fair give-and-take. For some reason, they suffer from an inability to separate the world of contact-sports from real-life. A rapist tends to have quite an identical attitude. Their lives are completely focused on "winning," preferably at another person's expense. They see women as "the ball" in a game that they are playing against other males, and they believe that they "win the game" if they can manage to swipe it before some other male gets to their target. The only thing in the world that is important to them is getting their way and proving that they can do so. They do not value intelligence, they not value industry, and they do not value kindness. If your assailant seems to have a jock-type mentality, which would not be unusual, I hypothesize that it could be effective to try assuming airs that he associates with authority. Perhaps it could be effective to "play the coach," and discuss the problems with his actions in the same tones that this figure in his life may explain the problems with a bad play. I am not sure about this at all, and I have almost no authority whatsoever in discussing this. It is nonetheless an interesting proposition. I do know that, if you are in a situation in which you are being sexually assaulted, there is no passing the buck. You are dealing with an incredibly misguided and disturbed individual, and it is up to you to control him. Demonizing him will not help you if you still aren't "the topper." If you run away from him, he will chase you, and he is faster than you are. If you fight him, he will overpower you because he is stronger than you are. Your only option is to take the position of power, and turn off the television set that is playing in his retarded cranium. Every guide I have seen for escaping rape situations has advised that emotional self-control is a very strong predictor as to whether or not a woman will escape from this sort of situation, and this applies especially to controlling anger. Rapists are not impressed with displays of anger or aggression: they are better at it than you are, and they know it. Whatever you do, whatever happens, remain level. Stay focused. If you let your emotions control you, you are only playing this fuckhead's sick, little game, and you will be taken for a ride. Personally, I recommend the abolition of contact sports. They are evil.
As much as men would love to equate themselves with members of the wild kingdom so they can justify acting like animals, we are different than animals. That is why we are given dominion over them. It is a denial of this difference and the responsibility that goes with it that rationalizes abuse. Rape is an act of violence, pure and simple.
Females generally want two different things. They want a male who is, say, a super male, which tends to be philandering womanizer, but is very attractive to other females. The advantage is that her offspring will have his genes and they will be attractive to other females. The disadvantage is that he won't be there to help raise the offspring since he's so busy mating with others. The other strategy is to find a male who looks like he's going to stay with her and take care of the offspring. He may not be as bright and shiny, but he'll be there to help with the homestead. Either way, it's in the female's best interest to be extremely picky--and that's exactly what we see in nature. It doesn't matter that we still don't live in that state. In the world of contraceptives, we still feel sexual lust. The instinct is still there, and our behavior is still very much instinct-based.
I like dick, particularly if the creature attached to it is an otherwise intelligent male who has suddenly transformed into a demented and violent animal who has forgotten how to do anything in the world except follow instructions. Any animal that can follow instructions after its mind has become completely filled with violence and lust is a good animal to bed. Any animal that continues to feel empathy when it is otherwise incapable of adding single-digit numbers is also a good animal to bed. I don't know about being "submissive," but I like dick, especially if they feel like they should have elbows. I definitely like being the one "in-control" in bed. I don't even like orgasm. It clouds my mind and takes me out of that position of control. You see, I think that is the reason that a lot of women go through their entire lives without having a single orgasm while in the sack with a male. They really love the idea that the creature they are in the sack with has become a completely demented, psychotic and violent creature that is under their spell. They like being enchantresses, and they like it a lot. I sure as hell do.
Francy, you're personifying animals and attributing to them human desires and needs. That just doesn't fly, my man. It is in the offspring's best interest for the female to be picky, not the female's best interest. Evolution favors living long enough to reproduce the most. And in almost every situation, voluntary sex is the preferrable and normal way of doing that. If rape were more beneficial, then we wouldn't see females evolving to orgasm and enjoying sex the same ways that men do. Clearly, the most prolific and beneficial way of mating in the animal kingdom is when BOTH parties want to have sex. Sorry, but that's incontrovertible according to the above facts. Try to avoid asserting that "because something happens in nature, it is normal." Rape is not a normal biological process of males and females, anymore than cancer is a normal biological process. Cancer occurs in the animal kingdom too. That doesn't mean it's normal, and so far we haven't developed a complete immunity to it even in our youth. So...yeah. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Criminals often rob people through violence or threat of violence, even though money can be acquired in less risky ways. Are we then to conclude that most criminals who rob strangers of their wallets are really doing it for the power, rather than the sake of acquiring the money?
I'm not sure either. He seems to have a complex about wanting to identify with wild animals. It may just be an affectation on his part, designed to make him feel macho, forceful, and cool. However, I would still like to hear him tell us exactly what is inherently "liberal" about the idea of rape being for power. That is what he said before.
Why not? Criminals are unhappier than law abiding people, not happier. Usually they are utterly powerless in every aspect of their pathetic no-named lives except in their faculty to take someone by surprise and steal THEIR hard-earned money. Probably power is a definite aspect of criminal type behavior. Just look at gangs. They literally kill each other for respect and status. Come to think of it, that sounds remarkably similar to what gorillas do. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Hm... this could be a fun exercise in the age-old evolutionary myth that thieves, rapists, and gang types have less developed brains than we normals. Maybe not as much of a myth as we thought? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Or are we unconsciously twisting the minds of young, stupid men by purposely conflating violent situations with situations in which they are likely to receive extensive praise? Could our adrenaline-addiction and our enthusiasm for televised, big-screen violence be propagating criminal behavior? Although violent situations may occur in cinema, nothing in the world fuels imitation like treating a man who regularly attacks people for a living like some kind of god. Even so, the most ardent supporters of limiting violence on television only seem to attack fiction, even though fictional settings do not promote as much of a sense as sporting events that one could or should aspire to such behavior. Practically nobody wants to challenge the sanctity of these activities in our culture, even though they may be the origin of the problem.
Don't forget too. Humans are animals. Animalia, chordata, mammalia, etc., etc. Our genes have the same goal as the genes of all other animals--to exist and multiply.
There's no precedent for "normal rape," francois.... anymore than there is for "normal cancer." Voluntary sex is the norm, sorry. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Your face is normal. What I'm saying is it's very common. If something is very common it's okay to call it normal. For example, it's normal to die.
That is because our bodies are programmed to expire, francois. We see this even on a cellular level during apoptosis. In the meantime... Normal: 1 : authoritatively standard : model 2 : a pattern or trait taken to be typical in the behavior of a social group b : a widespread or usual practice, procedure, or custom I think we can safely say that rape is not widespread nor is it the usual practice. It is not standard either. Therefore, voluntary sex is the ONLY normal type of sex. Citing some weird species of duck that happens to do this stuff is an exception. Exceptions do not invalidate the rule. That is why we call them "exceptions." Clearly, voluntary sex is the most pervasive and the most beneficial type of sex, from an evolutionary standpoint. Period. You can continue to say that rape's infrequent occurence means it is normal... but that just doesn't mean jack squat in the face of the much stronger prevailing norm.
Complete nonsense. We are just another species on this planet. Just another of the great apes, nothing more. Explaining (or seeking to explain) human behavior justifies nothing; if you've taken any of the posts in this thread as a justification of rape, your reading comprehension is very poor. Humans were formed in the same evolutionary forge as all of the rest of the animals, and were just as subject to selection pressure. The first thing necessary for a discussion of the possibility of rape in humans sometimes being a last strategy of desperation for low status males to reproduce is to dispense with the notion that any attempt to explain such behavior in this way is somehow seeking to justify it. And humans weren't given dominion over anything. Our present dominance over this planet is pure luck of the draw, and our self destructive behavior likely means it will be short lived.
Wait--who said rape is an infrequent occurrence? As far as I know, it's a pervasive and common human phenomenon, as well as in many other animal species.
I was actually wondering, if hypothetically the woman that is being assaulted what would happen if she would actually not resist, and go with it. Would that irritate the assailant? Would he proceed with the act of rape if he'd see that there's no resistance? Would he still enjoy it as much?
That's a load, francois. Statistically speaking, if you rounded up 10,000 human beings out of a wide cross section of society and asked many of them have raped anybody in their lives, only 2 of them would turn out to be rapists. That's anything but "common." Time to take your mind outta the toilet.
