Is Psychology a science or is it just bullshit...

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by DestroyCurrency?, Oct 5, 2013.

  1. wellwisher Banned Banned

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    Exploring the mind, via science, is currently like exploring the bottom of the ocean from the comfort of a ship. One can infer many things from this detached POV, but it is not until you employ the diving bell that you see things you never knew were there.

    In this analogy, the first instinct of many scientists would be to design a device that allows one to explore the bottom more directly. In the case of psychology, this device is the most important tool of science; consciousness. Ultimately, it is consciousness that observes and synthesizes the data with consciousness the only diving bell you really need; au natural without machines since these are limp.

    Astrology is a system of observations, based on projection of the underlying phenomena of the mind. As a projection it appears to originate outside the mind, allowing the scientists in us, that third person POV. Luckily in psychology, most people who pursue that field have had direct experiences with the unconscious mind, which could be as simple as neurosis. There is an overlap between self observation and the conventions of third person theory, which meet the requirements of direct investigation, st least half way.

    My favorite psychologist was Carl Jung. He went through thousands of dreams generated by hundreds of reliable witnesses. Based on this data he saw trends in the data common to all. He called this the collective unconscious. He also saw similar symbolism appearing in astrology and even religions which indicated their origins in the spontaneous expression of the brain beyond our control. These are often projected outside where even science expects to see it. But they nevertheless help to map the underlying phenomena. Tp test this theory one need to get into the diving bell of consciousness and make direct observations since ship can't see the detail needed to verify.
     
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  3. Doubter Registered Member

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    Sorry, I have hard time grasping this sentence. What does astrology or astrologer observe?
     
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  5. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    Psychology questions everything. Duh?

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    This is absolutely not true. Only psychiatry, which is a discipline of medicine, uses drugs and other medical procedures. This is why I urge people who want help to avoid psychiatrists, who are MDs, prescribe medicine, and can even hospitalize their patients against their will.

    Psychology is not a branch of medicine. Psychologists have PhDs (and in many cases only MAs) and try to help you by simply talking. Jungian psychologists (the best of the lot in my observation and experience) are students of history and culture and help their patients understand themselves by understanding humanity as a whole (all the way back to the Stone Age) and finding their place in it. Jung developed the theory of archetypes, which explains why so many strange beliefs, rituals, stories, images and other motifs keep recurring in most cultures in most eras. (They seem to be instincts programmed into our neurons by DNA, probably odd mutations passed down through genetic drift or a genetic bottleneck--although Jung died before genetics became a mature science.)

    Psychologists do not talk about or deal with chemical disorders, and they are not licensed to prescribe drugs. In rare cases, such as a patient who is obviously trying to kill himself or harm other people, they'll refer him to a psychiatrist, but they do not have the authority to force him to go.

    A friend of mine who is a Jungian psychologist once decided to visit an astrologer to "see how the people on the other side do their work"--although he hadn't even admitted to himself that he really did need some help. He was amazed to discover that the lady was in fact following most of the principles of non-medical psychotherapy, even though she had very little formal education in the field. She was following her instincts and genuinely trying to help people, and it worked.

    As he walked in the door she "read" him before he uttered a word, and said, "It's obvious that you don't believe in astrology, but it's also obvious that you need help and are hoping that somehow I can provide it. So I'm not going to bother with the star charts and all that stuff that makes most of my customers feel comfortable and trusting. Just sit down and tell me what's bothering you and I'll see what I can do." Half an hour later he walked out much happier, having figured out what was bothering him and having some good ideas about how to try to fix it.

    Since then he has never criticized Tarot cards, palm readers and the other "supernatural healers." Sure, some of them are just frauds and they charge money for the entertainment. But many of them really want to help people, and there are a lot of people who won't go to a psychotherapist but will happily walk into an astrologer's office.

    As I already noted, practitioners of psychology are not licensed to prescribe medication. Once again you're displaying your ignorance to this entire forum.

    Don't you ever get tired of standing on a box at a street corner, holding a big sign that says in red letters, "I AM AN IDIOT"?

    I know a lot of us here on SciForums are getting tired of READING THAT SIGN.

    As a Moderator I don't usually like to insult people, but in your case it's either that or ban you. You seem to be getting on a lot of people's nerves and much of what you post qualifies, technically, as trolling, which is a violation of the forum rules. I know you've been banned already, so the next one will be longer. Your choice.

    Astrologers charted the movements of the moon, planets and stars, way back in the Stone Age. They were actually the first astronomers, and it can be argued with considerable validity that astronomy was the first science worthy of the designation.

    At first they used this information to predict when the seasons would change, so the tribe would know when to start stocking up on food, when the medicinal plants would be ripe, when to break camp and follow the animals to new pastures, when to start making new boots and warm clothes, when the river would dry up or freeze over, etc.

    Astrology as we know it today, with all the fantasy, spirituality, zodiac, etc., goes back to the Bronze Age in Mesopotamia around 3000BCE, and was also developed in different ways in the world's other five civilizations (India, Egypt, China, Olmec, Inca).

    In other words, modern astrology was invented around the same time as modern religion.
     
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  7. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Depression isn't just about being sad. It's the inability to find pleasure in anything and a lack of motivation in life. Sad is a trite trivialization of the more debilitating despair/anxiety that is depression. Serotonin/norepinephrin boosters help restore in the depressed a renewed and given interest in life again and a desire to engage in activities towards its betterment. Meds don't make you happy. They just give you the freedom to make yourself happy by restoring your interest in life and the world.
     
  8. Mazulu Banned Banned

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    I personallydon't practice astrology. But I am supportive of any activity that gives people a better sense of happiness and control over their lives. I see nothing wrong with an ego boost, particularly in such a demanding culture as ours. New age ideas are beautiful and empowering. Who could ever disparage such beliefs. But there are trollish hatemongers who don't like it when new age psychics can feel energy coming from their crystals. But the experience is wonderful and empowering. Trolls who don't like it should admit that they want everyone to be unhappy like they are.
     
  9. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    2,508
    People who don't believe in "crystal power" aren't against people feeling better. They are just addressing the lack of evidence in the power of crystals. No one is against the placebo effect.

    I also agree that medicines do help with clinical depression, anxiety, and a host of other chemical imbalances.
     
  10. Mazulu Banned Banned

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    I had something positive I wanted to share, but you got all negative and disparaging. You won't get to see a facet of truth now.


    So I assume that you take medication for depression? Otherwise how would you know that since it's not common knowledge.

    I'm not afraid of a ban. I'm just hurt by your comments.
     
  11. Mazulu Banned Banned

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    For many people, "crystal power" can last a whole life time. But I think that calling it a "placebo" destroys the positive effect.
    Would you rather experience the energy of a crystal? Or would you prefer to be emotionally suppressed?
     
  12. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    Crystals don't help those with any significant issues. The placebo effect only goes so far.
     
  13. Mazulu Banned Banned

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    Trust me, I know what depression is. If given the choice between crystal power and medication, I prefer crystal power. Anti-depressants suppress positive feelings as well as negative feelings. Anti-depressants suppress sexual urges. Crystal power tends to enhance them as well as lots of other fuzzy happy feelings. I would think that the smart person would want those fuzzy happy feelings.
     
  14. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    Sure, as do other forms of mindless entertainment, even though it's complete bs.
     
  15. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    Really? It seems more like astrology is mindless entertainment for the gullible.
     
  16. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    19,125
    Crystal power? :roflmao:
     
  17. Mazulu Banned Banned

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    3,090
    What significant issues are you referring to?
     
  18. Mazulu Banned Banned

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    3,090
    Crystal power is not that different from sexual experience. It feels different, more fuzzy and happy, maybe it's more like love.
     
  19. Mazulu Banned Banned

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    3,090
    You sound boring. Do you ever play games? Watch television? Have sex? Do anything just for fun and relaxation? Are you really that dull?

    Romance novels and sexual fantasies are just physiological states in the mind. Do yo think those things are idiotic?
     
  20. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    19,125
    Sure, that may be true if all you do is spend your time "humping" crystals.
     
  21. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    Sorry, but playing games and watching tv is not my idea of fun and relaxation. That is the epitome of dull.
     
  22. Mazulu Banned Banned

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    3,090
    Maybe you would prefer to be humped? Is that what all this is about? Are you gay?
     
  23. Mazulu Banned Banned

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    3,090
    Are you depressed? It sounds like you can't find enjoyment in anything.
     

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