Is midnight today or tomorrow?

Discussion in 'Science & Society' started by dsdsds, Mar 11, 2009.

  1. Michael 345 Looking for Bali in Nov Valued Senior Member

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    dsdsds said:
    It's probably neither (and both). But what is the standard, if any, if one is writing a contract? If I want something to expire on midnight between March 11 and March 12, how is it defined?

    0h00 2009-03-12 ?
    24h00 2009-03-11 ?

    This contract will expire midnight of the 11th March 2018

    Midnight is spelt out

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  3. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

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    You could just say "This contract will expire at the end of the day on _________." However you determine the end of the day it will end. Same with the start of the next day.

    And, of course, certain litigious societies will still find reasons to argument about it.
     
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  5. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    23:59 2009-03-11
    00:01 2009-03-12

    Not really that hard.

    No contract defined to less than a minute would be enforceable - Brewster's Millions notwithstanding.
     
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  7. Michael 345 Looking for Bali in Nov Valued Senior Member

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    ???? I think the two dates were not given as HIS period of the contract

    They were given as his 2 samples of expired dates which could be used

    I'm fairly certain midnight spelt out is used

    My data allowance per month staess "Your new allowance begins midnight on the last day of each month"

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  8. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Not sure what you're saying.
    It looked like he was just listing two ambiguous dates, and then listing a solution.

    23:59 on the day in question is pretty unambiguous. That's why it's used a lot.
     
  9. Dinosaur Rational Skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    From RubiksMaster Post 19
    Midnight is not a small slice of time, it is the dividing line between night & day.

    Consider using masking tale to very carefully color three equal areas of a circle red, blue, & yellow with no actual line dividing the three regions.

    In some sense, the mind considers there to be a border between the regions. However the conceptual border is neither color: It is a mental concept. How would you answer the question which color is each conceptual border?​

    You might say the conceptual border between red & blue is red, in which case you should for consistency sake claim that the border between blue & yellow is blue.

    Alternatively, you could claim that the question is improper due to potential ambiguity (there does not seem to be an English word for this type of situation).​

    For the benefit of a color blind person, one might draw a black line to distinguish the three regions & put the words red, blue, & yellow in the pertinent regions: Then ask a person person with normal vision to assign a color to each border line. The black line border is the source of the problem.

    I think the above is analogous to the question about midnight.

    In some sense it is neither last night nor today, although either choice dictates the assignment of noon to either morning or afternoon.
     
  10. Goldtop Registered Senior Member

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    140
    How about even more detail?

    23:59:59 2009-03-11
    00:00:00 2009-03-12
     
  11. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    IOW; The border is a shared property of both sides?
     
  12. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    ///
    The border is an abstract line. It is not physical. It has no properties.

    <>
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2018
  13. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Of course it doesn't quite work that way. This would be more accurate but still approximate;

    23:59:59:000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001
    23:59:59:000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000002
    23:59:59:000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000003

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  14. Goldtop Registered Senior Member

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    And then, how does that work, does it go...

    23:59:59:0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000058
    23:59:59:0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000059
    23:59:59:0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000100

    ?????
     
  15. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    7,596
    It is weird, a decimal number measured in 1/60, strange.....

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    But yes, according to some posters, that last second is infinitely divisible. Else Time would be a quantum function instead of a continuum.
    Just look at the thread;
    Can "Infinity" ever be more than a mathematical abstraction

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  16. Dinosaur Rational Skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    If you work with military time, Midnight can be either 2400 Thursday or 000 Friday.

    Using midnight is slightly awkward for for time calculations.
     
  17. gmilam Valued Senior Member

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    I work for a company that writes time and attendance software. When I first started they allowed both 00:00 and 24:00 as valid times. I told them they needed to pick one or the other. We let the operating system decide. It allows valid times of 00:00:00 to 23:59:59.

    Problem solved. At least for our purposes.
     
  18. Dr_Toad It's green! Valued Senior Member

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    That's the way it's been done for many years, and it ain't broke.
     
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