is life about the survival of the fittest chemistry?

Discussion in 'Biology & Genetics' started by globali, Jan 29, 2018.

  1. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Wow, that's quite a leap and wholly unsupported by the rapidly advancing science in biology. You may want to look back and watch the Anil Seth clip about how our brains process incoming sensory information and trigger an illusionary but real experience.
    As Anil Seth proposes; "you don't need to be smart (intelligent) to feel pain, but you probably have to be alive".

    All experiences of being Sad, happy, pain, joy, gratification, and a host of other sensory experiences are produced by the brain.

    Pain is experienced in the subconscious body control functions of the brain. We cannot "see" inside our bodies, but that subconscious "control mechanism" will tell us when something goes wrong with our bodies. In fact it is what keeps us alive.

    We know that all sensory experiences are caused by electro/chemical information processed by the brain.

    And I am sure that pain experienced by the brain is a chemical phenomenon. Perhaps an acid which "burns" living tissue and is experienced by the brain as the "emotional experience" of pain. Consider "pain killing" medicine (chemicals) which reduce the experience of pain. How does that happen? They clearly affect brain function (warning, do not use while driving). How does that happen? What about anti-inflammable medicine (chemicals) which control the swelling of injured tissue? These are all chemical processes, some directly introduced into the blood stream, or naturally produced by the brain, stimulating glands which produce chemicals.

    One important fact to remember is that the brain and body recognize these chemicals. This is why they are effective in the first place.

    Our study of brain functions is new but rapidly advancing due to our increasing ability to look at nano scales. Who knows what we will find there. To dismiss the study of emotional experiences such as "pain" as "pseudoscience" is wholly unwaranted at this time.

    Can you offer another alternative? If not, then you do not have standing to make such a claim (from ignorance).
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2018
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  3. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

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    Maybe it will. Science is a process of discovery.
     
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  5. origin In a democracy you deserve the leaders you elect. Valued Senior Member

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    Demonstrably wrong.
    Demonstrably wrong.
    Certain people are just cry babies and obsess over a little bit of pain. If you hit your finger with a hammer say 'goddamnit' and move on for god sake.
     
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  7. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    The interesting part is that when we observe someone hit their finger with a hammer, our brains produce the same electro/chemical activity as the victim. Which is really odd if you think about it. We do not experience the pain, but we wince just as if we had hit our own finger wirh a hammer.

    IOW, from observation alone our brain responds as if it was actually experiencing the pain. It's called an empathic response, created by our mirror neural system. To me this is one of the most fascinating abilities of our brains and perhaps one of the most important survival functions, at least in humans.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2018
  8. gmilam Valued Senior Member

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    So all the medical advances over the last few decades have been lucky guesses?
     
  9. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    It's nice to know that empathy isn't just something that was made up by bleeding-heart liberals.

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  10. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Indeed, IMO, empathy is what makes us human, and it can be found in several other species.
    But we are learning and imitating from experience and observation alone. That's why we know it exists......

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    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_neuron
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2018
  11. pluto2 Registered Senior Member

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    It's not just in the brain though.

    Scientists assume that all pain is made by the brain but what if it's not made in the brain but produced locally?

    That's why I'm saying that modern biology is becoming a pseudoscience.
     
  12. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    It's very common for theoretical breakthroughs, clever inventions, new comprehensions of objects or situations, to have been made in large part via an act of empathy of a kind.
    Recall Einstein's account of the breakthrough that led to Relativity: he imagined himself as the lead edge of a beam of light, and considered what he would see.
    I once read an account of the working methods of a well-respected mechanical engineer, famous for designing things like the production lines that manufacture plastic utensils. He described his design approach as continually and normally involving such things as imagining himself as the blob of plastic being run through the machine.
    It's completely normal for a human being hunting, designing, creating, figuring something out, to basically anthropomorphize the situation - project themselves into this or that aspect of things. It works for all kinds of situations where engaging the brain is critical - that's how we think when we're thinking at the top of our game.
     
  13. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Right, there is skin conductance or also known as electrodermal activity (EDA)
    IOW, the brain functions at a subconscious level also. And the skin itself works as an reflexive electrical distribution system.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrodermal_activity
    Obviously this phenomenon has been studied in-depth and is used practically for various purposes.
    No it isn't. The link clearly shows that the study of EDA is part of "modern biology" and falsifies your statement.
    But this is the way it appears to work.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomic_nervous_system

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    Illustration from Anatomy & Physiology, Connexions Web site. http://cnx.org/content/col11496/1.6/, Jun 19, 2013.

    Please do watch the Anil Seth clip ;
    https://www.ted.com/talks/anil_seth_how_your_brain_hallucinates_your_conscious_reality
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2018
  14. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    You mean, in the arse, for example?

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  15. origin In a democracy you deserve the leaders you elect. Valued Senior Member

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    This is not an assumption.

    I see you, just guess that maybe it isn't

    Sound like you do not understand biology, what pseudoscience means or both.
     
  16. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Pain isn't "made in the brain." Pain is PERCEIVED in the brain.
    From your postings, what comes across is "Pluto2 doesn't understand modern biology so he thinks it's a pseudoscience."
     
  17. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    As others have pointed out, pain is a perception.

    You can literally stop pain by blocking the signals from the nerves.

    Yes, the body produces electrical stimuli in response to possible damage, but that is not pain until it is perceived so by the brain.
     
  18. pluto2 Registered Senior Member

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    It is a pseudoscience because pain is not only in the brain.

    And yes I do understand modern biology much better than you, apparently.
     
  19. origin In a democracy you deserve the leaders you elect. Valued Senior Member

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    I guess it sucks to be you. Sorry, but that doesn't mean the rest of the world is wrong.
     
  20. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Again, pain is PERCEIVED in the brain. It is not IN the brain. (In fact, the brain does not perceive pain when it experiences damage.)
     
  21. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    I believe Anil Seth explained the phenomenon of conscious and subconscious experience of pain concicely here:
    https://www.ted.com/talks/anil_seth_how_your_brain_hallucinates_your_conscious_reality

    And just having undergone a surgery I can completely identify with his presentation.
     
  22. gamelord Registered Senior Member

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    Science does not know why we feel pain.
    It just knows that certain conditions in the brain, are correlated with pain.

    Same as it knows, the nose is associated with smell. But it does not explain why smells, smell. The hard problem of consciousness.
    Science has no answer why we are conscious of our our nuerons, and why we feel different types of consciousness, depending on the function of the neurons.

    In 20 mins I shall comment on Seth's ted video.

    Meh. It's an interesting video but doesn't explain consciousness or solve the hard problems of consciousness.
    But its an interesting insight onto how drugs change our perceived reality of the world.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2018
  23. origin In a democracy you deserve the leaders you elect. Valued Senior Member

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    Sure we do.
     

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