Is it right to discriminate against tobacco smokers

How is it a fraud?

 

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I have the right to smoke. I do not have the right to force it on others in an enclosed space.

 

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Good points but they don't outweigh the 1 I made in the post above.

 

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I was very much opposed to the ban on smoking in bars when it was introduced in New York City...in part because I own percentages in several bars and the consensus was that we'd lose revenue. I myself don't smoke, though.

In fact, most people agreed that bars were far more pleasant after the ban, even smokers, and revenues went up. The number of heavy smokers who could not stand to be in a smokeless bar for more than limited periods of time before fleeing to their homes to puff away, turned out to be very small. The number of people who were consciously or unconsciously avoiding bars because they hated the smoke turned out to be more than enough to offset the drop in the smoker population. (In fact, most smokers can go a couple of hours without a cigarette, no matter how heavy their use.)

I myself rarely planned an evening around visiting bars because the atmosphere was generally unpleasant (and you always needed to get your suits dry cleaned to get the smoke out after a night of drinking). So I was surprised to find that the ban worked well for me and made me happier.

It makes sense though. Giving people the "freedom" to do things that I would not do myself is the real problem. I am therefore in favor of limiting all of your freedoms when they conflict with my preferences. I think we could make me even happier if we band together and give up the things I dislike. Who's with me?

 

Most people wouldn't care, but because of the ETS scare, more people are making an issue out of it. Keep in mind that smoking was once a very sociably acceptable activity, and no one gave a rats ass about second hand smoke, but now that it has been labeled as a toxin, every nanny on the planet has taken a stand against it.

 

Junk science that produce skewed results, supported and perpetuated by the anti-smoking zealotry that has always taken issue with smoking.

 

I'm sure plenty of people didn't like it, but they had no evidence that it was harmful. Now they do. You're also talking about a time when there was no real evidence that smoking itself was harmful. There was a time when insulation for your home was made of asbestos, there was a time when watch dials were painted with radium. When these things were discovered to be hazardous, substitutes were found.

 

Ad nauseam fallacy.

 

Stay out of the discussion if you disagree so strongly. I think I've proven that past studies have been hindered by subjective analysis, and I don't see any reason why we should put faith in any other study that's touted by the anti-smoking agenda. Hell, they cite studies that can't be investigated or subjected to review, all of which makes them that much more questionable.

 

It sounds like you made up your mind. Would you believe any study that found evidence for second-hand smoke? There are not any researchers out there who are completely unbiased on the issue. So of course they find what they want to find. Just like people doing research on the validity of ESP. If you don't believe in it you can't see evidence of it, if you do believe in it you can.

 

None of that has the slightest impact on this :

 

The only thing you've proven is that you think you should be able to smoke when and where you like, and to hell with anyone who doesn't like it. By your reasoning, the entire medical establishment has conspired to deprive you of your "right" to smoke as you please. Their motivation? Probably just doing it to piss you off. I have to wonder if you truly believe that tobacco is harmful at all?

You might want to check out confirmation bias.

I'll participate in any discussion I care to.

 

“ Originally Posted by StrangerInAStrangeLa
How is it a fraud? ”

I was obviously responding to your comment on 2nd hand smoke.

 

I think it's reasonable to question the motivations of those who are producing the study. The question is how far they have fudged the numbers in their effort to make an issue out of the data. Another problem is whether or not they disclose the the details of their study to the general public. Currently I'm trying to find more details concerning the Cancer Prevention Study II, which was conducted by the American Cancer Society. I cannot dig up any specifics on the study, and I find that to be very frustrating.

In general, I think it's a good thing not to take any proclamation at face value.

 

“ Originally Posted by Bowser
Most people wouldn't care, but because of the ETS scare, more people are making an issue out of it. Keep in mind that smoking was once a very sociably acceptable activity, and no one gave a rats ass about second hand smoke, but now that it has been labeled as a toxin, every nanny on the planet has taken a stand against it. ”

A coworker & I were cooking & she asked "Where's the masher?". I made a pun with masher which she's old enough to understand. Then I commented on how they didn't take mashers very seriously & she said "They didn't take rape seriously either!".

What people once thought is worth some consideration but not necessarily strong consideration.

 

None of that has the slightest impact on this :
“ Originally Posted by StrangerInAStrangeLa
I have the right to smoke. I do not have the right to force it on others in an enclosed space. ”

 

When there is a reasonable alternative, I think you have every right to smoke. Nobody forces nonsmokers to patronize a particular bar or restaurant, nor are they required to stand next to a smoker. Be honest, the whole SHS hysteria has gotten out of hand.

 

Concerning forcing it on people in enclosed spaces, there is no reasonable alternate.
If every bar & restaurant allows smoking, nonsmokers, including children, essentially can't participate without it being forced on them.
Concerning nonenclosed spaces & my apartment, it has gotten out of hand.
What the heck do you think you mean by "Be honest"?

 

Of course I should be able to smoke when and where I like. If my favorite bar or restaurant accommodates my kind, why not. Also, why shouldn't I be able to smoke outdoors where there is no enclosure. You know they are trying to ban smoking there, too.

Yes, I do think there is a consorted effort to demonize smokers.

 

I see your another anti-smoking radical. Obviously you have never heard of nonsmoking establishments.