Discussion in 'Human Science' started by TimeTraveler, Aug 13, 2006.
In public? I was 5
To myself? About a month ago
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Interesting. I don't remember the last time I cried. Not for several years now.
A lot of people associate crying with weakness, they are wrong. Crying is actually a very powerful and dangerous emotion, and can be very effective depending on the cryee's state of mind.
That was not my intention (if you mean from my post); I'm too impatient with myself to cry; mostly, I usually try to figure out what I should do to either resolve or let go of the situation.
It calms me down to rationalise the process.
Maybe that's another kind of defence mechanism?
During domestic disputes I used to be angry. Then I realised that the hurt is the more honest, more immediate emotion, and then indeed, hey presto, the truth is more effective than the lie.
Why deny myself the effect of it when for years I'd been beating my head against the proverbial wall with a derived emotion instead of the real thing?
When you want somebody else to change themselves trust them to know that it makes a difference, display the result of their actions.
Invulnerablity begets indifference.
But vulnerability begets contempt.
Are you beneath contempt or above it?
If that is the sort of company you keep, move.
I agree with him, crying in public over a girl is what guys consider a "bitch move". You don't cry over a girl in front of your friends, that is what guys called "pussy whipped bitch". You act like you've never been around guys before.
It's against the rules to cry in public, period, follow the rules to the best of your ability. If you are at your mothers funeral it's understandable if you cry. If you are watching a sad movie with your gf it's understandable if you cry.
There is a huge difference between crying out of weakness, and crying because of a funeral, or because you are being tortured and beaten, or because you are laughing. The key is, men do not cry out of a weakness, we cry out of strength.
If you got to meet someone you really looked up to and respected, you might cry out of happiness and pride, these arent the same kind of tears as crying because your gf beat the shit out of you. You can be expected to cry because your gf beat the shit out of you, but you should NEVER do it in front of people, and should take it in private, like a man.
The worst possible thing a man can do, is get dumped by a girl, and let the girl know he cried over it.
Why are you endorsing weakness? You know how this world is, you are in your 50s. I remember you and I had a debate before, and I called you a young man, because sometimes you say things which seem so naive.
Children look to their father for strength, does not matter how you choose to interpret it, it's true. When you were a boy, you needed the male figure to show you how to be strong, how to fight bullies, how to take on the world and win. It sends the wrong msg to break down and cry in front of your son. How is your son going to learn to fight if you show so much weakness?
Yes I agree, it's alright to cry in front of your wife on occassion, but never out of weakness, never out of weakness. Tell me, because you promised you would,
how do you fight predators, bullies, and take on the harsh cruel world, if you show so much weakness? We discussed this topic before and you said you'd enlighten me, how do you fight back?
The truth is, and HonorAndStrength seems to be one of the few who seem to understand what I'm talking about. This world is filled with predators, bullies, and monsters, all who prey on weakness and the most vulnerable in society. Usually these people prey on the weakest target, starting with homeless lesbian or gay minorities, and slowly working upward to straight men who happen to be at the top of the predator pyramid. The way a prison works, is very much the way life works outside of a prison. If you behave like a fag, people will label you a fag. If you behave like a bitch people will label you a bitch, and once you get labeled, it attracts predators. These labels are a way for predators to know who they can rape, fuck, bully, or beat up on. If you are in prison, surrounded by ruthless predators, and you cry in front of them, all this will do is turn you into a prison bitch.
Now, lets take the military as the next example, if you go off to war, and guns are shooting back and forth, and you start crying, are your fellow soldiers going to respect you? What kind of captain, or leader breaks down in the middle of the action? Have you wondered why there was the fight to keep women out of the military?Have you wondered why there was the fight to keep gays out of the military? Despite what modern metrosexuals may think, certain people and behavior types are considered weak. When you bargan from a position of weakness, you already lost before you start.
I'm not saying that you shouldnt have emotions, of course you do. Most people in the military are afraid to kill, and in just as much fear as anyone would be when guns are coming out and bullets flying at them. The difference is, they don't show the enemy their fear because it only gives the enemy strength. Showing weakness to the enemy, improves morale for the enemy, not for you.
Good points, TT. Good points.
A man must show strength to show that there is hope, even when it is apparent that there is no hope. He must still be strong and give his family and others hope.
As for crying over a girl dumping you... yeah, I agree with you TT. They act like they have been sheltered most of their lives.
If a girl that you were together with for -3 WEEKS- dumps you, seriously, who cares? Get another girl. There are lots of them. If you loved her for some weird reason, she obviously DID NOT LOVE YOU because she dumped you so why cry? Stop being a pussy and have some dignity.
Not everyone is as good at emotional display. Not everyone is a good emotional actor. Emotions should not be about display ability, because a male will almost never be able to beat a woman at the display. Males should develop their own emotional expressions and their own ways of displaying it, and no I did not say anger, I'm just saying, men will not be able to use the same emotional expressions as women and get the same response that a woman will get. If a man and a woman are both crying, the people will surround the woman and give her hugs, and look at the man in disgust and take the side of the woman, even if the woman is the one who actually did the damage to the man. I've seen this happen.
The man however who can rationally and calmly explain the situation, while the woman is breaking and hysterical, actually stands a chance.
Here is a question for people,
Why display emotions to people who don't care how you feel? Why put on emotional display at all? If most emotional displays are simply acting, and not real displays, what is the purpose of the theater? If you love a person treat them like you love them, if you are angry at them treat them like you are angry at them, if you are sad, act sad, people should be able to know how you feel if they know you well enough. Just because someone is crying, it does not always mean they deserve sympathy.
I refer in particular to "domestic", i.e. private, man and wife.
I had tried for more than 25 years with rational argument.
It didn't work.
Never mind the other people. They come and go.
Ron, are you advocating that we traditional men take acting lessons to compete with our wives?
The very opposite: The tears come when you get rid of the hard man act.
It is conditioned, taught. We were not born with it.
Hard men feel pain differently than soft men. We feel pain sure, but at some point you recognize that crying will not solve anything.
If the world is kicking your ass, you can cry until you are blue in the face and it will not change anything. The hard man is the man who recognizes that crying never solved anything, and instead learns to take that pain, and recycle it into positive energy. Pain can become fuel, motivation, positive energy. If you release the pain in the form of tears, it's a bit wasteful, when you could use that pain to get a degree from college, or to get through military training, or to survive in prison, or to make money.
How do you stay driven if you release your pain through tears?
Perplexity is right, it is conditioning, but thats called adaptation. The environment hates weakness and does not care how you feel. How do you respond?
In order to be rational, you have to keep your emotions to yourself, otherwise people will cast sympathy spells and commit acts of emotional terrorism on you.
That is their problem, not mine.
As I said before, that is not my experience.
Why do I need to be driven?
I don't like cars. They stink and they're dangerous.
It is much more healthy to meditate.
Pain distracts. It steals attention.
I tried college. It was shit. Prisons are shit; I have seen those as well. Military is shit. Kindly keep your shit yourself.
I respect your opinions, they are yours, but we cannot all live like you do, as some of us are in situations where weakness is not optional, and motivation is a requirement for survival.
Did you ever hear of tears of joy?
The happiest time of my life was when I first left home and was homeless for a few years. With not knowing where the next meal comes from or where to sleep tomorrow, one is that much more grateful when it comes.
Don't cling too tight to it, 'cause you can't take it with you when you go.
Ok my jaw completely dropped when I read this. I'm not sure what you mean.
Separate names with a comma.