Is it ever okay for men to cry in public?

It is funny you should say that.

The reception that followed my mother's funeral was a remarkably light hearted affair, one might almost say gleeful. The sense of relief was palpable, to be done at last with the misery and pain of it all.

I have given instructions to bury me in a galvanised metal dustbin.

--- Ron.

 

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Ignorance is bliss.

People cheat themselves, and when they cheat on others it is most often "to please", to avoid disapproval.

Most of the lies that are told are told because it is obvious enough that the recipient would rather hear the lie.

To fail to cry in public is to lie, to cheat emotionally.

--- Ron.

 

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perplexity :

Sometimes a man has to be the foundation and strength of a family. Hope is seen much better through the eyes of a man that has no tears.

 

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Oh yes it bloody well does. People don't deceive their partners in order go to the cinema with someone else, or share an illicit ice-cream. Cheating generally involves going at it like knives with your partner's best friend, or your boss, or the babysitter, or a complete stranger.

And suppose this isn't possible because your partner is a stubbornly monogamous born-again Christian whose sexual organs shrivelled up in 1963, and who's only interested in soap operas and new recipe ideas, and you're gagging for it but not with her, not any more, and you reckon you're in with a chance with Dirty Doris from 3 doors down, but you don't want to leave your wife because it will kill her, and then there are the kids to think of? What then? People cheat because they're not getting it at home, it's as simple as that. Moralise all you want, it'll still happen.

Only if you get found out.

Not if they use protection. They may be socially responsible cheaters, or keen to avoid fathering, or giving birth to, little bastards.

Only if they find out. If not then no harm done, eh? If you can live with the guilt, that is - which most serial cheaters can.

It's so blindingly obvious to say that cheating is wrong and that people shouldn't do it because people can get hurt, blah blah blah, that it's not even worth debating. Keep your partners happy in bed until they're too old to care any more. That is all.

 

I disagree, I don't think there are any rules for emotional communication or expression. I think the majority of people won't care how you feel, they don't care if cry or not, they don't care if you feel pain or not, your emotions just are not factored into the equation.

Now, in private situations people might actually care, but you still don't have to follow dogmatic emotional protocol to express sadness. Find another way to show sadness besides crying. Celebrate during a sad time, tell a joke, go for a drink, or just talk about it, but why cry?

Crying is for girls not boys. Let boys be boys, and develop their own forms of emotional expression seperate from female.

 

Deception is deception. Someone who is irrational enough to use deception for sex, is also irrational enough to use deception to kill you in your sleep, or do anything they "feel" like doing at your expense. So to be honest, I do not trust deceptive hedonists. A person can have sex without deception so tell me why deception is valueable?

If you don't want to leave your wife because it would kill her, then don't decieve her, tell her you are going to cheat and then do what you say you'll do, but keep your word. This is not the sort of thing which you can afford to lie about.

Thats just it, if you cannot handle monogamy, don't try it. If you cannot stay with a partner who is bad in bed, don't try it. Accept the fact that sex is important, and adapt. The problem here is monogamy, not people. Most people are polyamorous just as you said, most men and women do want an exciting sex life, and lets face it, sex with one person for a long period of time is not likely to be as exciting as sex with a lot of different people.

It's not about sex, if it were about sex you'd have decided against monogamy and based the relationship around sex. You don't start a relationship and then later on try to change it so it's based on sex, it has to be based on sex from the beginning, or not. If you want to change in mid stream then you have to do it in a rational way, and cheating is not the way.

Cheating is the worst way to accomplish the goal you mention. And socially responsible cheater? That's so irrational and illogical that the statement does not make any sense. This is like saying "well sure you can let your wife poison your food as long as she promises you she won't use a harmful poison.", sorry, but how do you know that?

Once a person cheats on you, trust is gone forever, it's already done, and just because they said they used protection does not mean the average person would be dumb enough to ever believe it. If you decieved them once, you'll decieve them again, and again, and again, so if you could cheat, you can cheat again by not using a condom.

Cheating is sacrificing trust in exchange for short term temporary sex gain. You'll never have that level of trust again, but you'll get a good night in bed in exchange for it? To me, thats a complete rip-off considering how rare trust is and how easy it is to get sex.

I'm a more simple guy, if I want something, I'll just tell the person what I'm going to do. If I'm going to have sex with other women, she'll just have to accept the reality of what I'm going to do. Why be a cowardly sissy about it and use deception? That's passive-aggressive, and weak, and all for a night of sex?

Do you know how this makes a person look? Do you know how this would make her feel? She'd feel like a sex object that you don't love, that you just jawbone and sleep with for pleasure, and she will be right in estimating that you'll do it again.

I'm going to make my point in the form of a question. What kinda person decieves their partner?

 

No, it's not OK for men to cry in public. It should be, but it's not. I went to a funeral the other day. I felt the need to cry, even though I only knew the deceased slightly. It was his distraught girlfriend that (nearly) set me off. I wanted to let it all out but held back the tears (save for one) because it just feels wrong, as a man, to cry in the presence of strangers. I think there are 2 things that hold us back. One is social conditioning: we're taught to be strong, to be in control of our emotions, and we perceive it as weak to cry publicly, or to give vent in any way to undue distress. When we're upset or in pain our conditioning teaches us not to cry or shout or scream but to be quiet and bear it stoically. The other thing that prevents us from wailing with grief is that people aren't sure how to deal with it when it happens, perhaps because they're unused to seeing it - or, perhaps, we just perceive that this is how it will be.

 

RedArmy I agree with you. It should be illegal for men to cry in public. Nothing good can come from it.

A man who cries in public, instantly gets labeled a bitch by women, and a fag by males. Yes, people are shallow, we live in the same world where people are judged by their skin color, so of course men are judged by their emotional displays. Emotional men are considered "weak".

The second reason is, women always look to men for strength. If a man is in a room filled with women, and they all are crying, and he starts crying too, who do they get strength from? Imagine how pathetic it would be if you saw a man crying with a room filled with women, it would make you sick to your stomach wouldnt it?

Imagine how gross it would be, if a woman is upset and goes to a man for help, and he cries too, and then the children start crying because mom and dad are crying with each other, how weak is this?

Despite everything women say, it's impossible for men to become women. Men have a responsibility on planet earth to protect the women and children, and while the women might want to weaken the men or make men look weak by making them cry in public, no woman wants a weak man, they all want to be held and protected from the harshness of the world, and a man who cries just does not have the image neccessary to make a woman feel safe.

A man needs to at least appear in control even when he isnt.

 

This isn't realistic. Cheating isn't the sort of thing that you can afford not to lie about. Not if you want to keep your loved one in blissful ignorance of the deception.

This doesn't address the scenario I outlined above. Suppose you start a relationship and the sex is great but, at some point, your partner loses interest - after the second child, maybe. Or you discover that your libido is higher than his/hers and that, even though you love them in every other way, they just don't satisfy you in the marital bed. You don't want to lose everything you have with them (economically, emotionally, and so on) but, at the same time, that familiar primal urge keeps nagging at your loins... and it just so happens that the sexy new co-worker has taken quite an interest in you. This is why people cheat. Moralising about it, and demonising the people who do it, won't stop it from happening. Better to understand the motivations behind it - then you can stop it from happening to you.

People who cheat on their partners are more likely to use condoms than people who don't (since the people who don't cheat... don't need them).
People who cheat on their partners are no more and no less likely to spread STDs than anyone else who has sex outside of a long-term relationship, eg on a one-night stand. Do you think one-night stands are immoral?
People who cheat on their partners are no more and no less likely to use environmentally-friendly fuels than people who don't.
People who cheat on their partners are no more and no less likely to donate money to charities than people who don't.
People who cheat on their partners are no more and no less likely to be active in their local communities than people who don't.
People who cheat on their partners are no more and no less likely to look after their parents than people who don't.

Most people cheat because their needs aren't being fulfilled. Continue seeing cheaters as evil monsters who would just as easily kill as sleep with a stranger, and you will never understand this.

I agree. But some people will still cheat given sufficient means, motive and opportunity. Others, like you, will think about it only occasionally, and never for long. It doesn't make you a better person though - not really. It just means you're more afraid of the consequences and better at suppressing the animal in you.

 

That's not what I was saying. Men should be able to cry in public. Common sense says that there's nothing 'weak' about it; that it doesn't make you a 'fag' if you do it. The point I was making is that our upbringing makes it a very difficult thing to do - not that there's anything wrong with it. Try not to be so macho.

 

If a man is crying about something trivial, yes there is something wrong with it.

If there is a valid reason for crying, then it's ok to cry in public. It better be a good reason, though.

 

Who's to decide what's trivial and what isn't?

 

A real man cries just for fun in public.

 

I thought the word trivial was self-explanatory.

Did you mean to play semantics?

 

that familiar primal urge keeps nagging at your loins... and it just so happens that the sexy new co-worker has taken quite an interest in you.

I do not understand. Just because you are horny and she isnt good at sex, does not mean you have to lie to her, decieve her, keep her in complete ignorance and cheat on her. Simply communicate like a man and tell her, and sorry if you can't communicate with your wife honestly, perhaps it was a bad idea to marry her in the first place.

Most people cheat because their needs aren't being fulfilled. Continue seeing cheaters as evil monsters who would just as easily kill as sleep with a stranger, and you will never understand this.

Relationships arent simply about filling a need. That is a self centered one sided way of thinking. No woman stays good at sex, sex is the first element to go in a relationship. As a woman grows old, the sex life is supposed to go stale, and thus you have swingers.

It just means you're more afraid of the consequences and better at suppressing the animal in you.

I'm just rational enough to know better. If I want to have sex, I'll change the rules and cheating no longer exists. I don't have to do it in such a stupid way. If I'm determined to do something, she won't be able to stop me, but I'll at least tell her she can't stop me and that I'm going to do it, and discuss it like a man. In fact, I'd have told her I'm capable of being that way LONG before getting into a relationship so she knows how I am. If you are a sex animal, tell your partner, and give them time to adapt. Monogamy is not for everyone, and cheaters need to accept the fact that monogamy is not their strength and go for polyamory, polygamy, or some other more open and free form of relationship.

A relationship shoul d be adapted to your strengths.

Moralising about it, and demonising the people who do it, won't stop it from happening. Better to understand the motivations behind it - then you can stop it from happening to you.

People commit suicide too, doesnt mean it's rational. Look, cheating is irrational, and it does not matter if I demonize them or not, because they do it to themselves. There is never a reason to apply deception to your partner. If you can't communicate with them why are you with them anyway? If you cannot be your true self around them why bother?

I agree. But some people will still cheat given sufficient means, motive and opportunity. Others, like you, will think about it only occasionally, and never for long. It doesn't make you a better person though - not really. It just means you're more afraid of the consequences and better at suppressing the animal in you.

It's a matter of intelligence. I'm a smarter person. If you are smart you can get what you want without deception, simply talk them into it, and if you can't, then find another partner who you can have an open relationship with.

Once again, there is no reason to cheat. If you don't care how she feels, why use deception, just tell her what you are going to do, and dump her in the process, but why lie?

You have not made the case as to why deception is rational, all you have said is "well people get horny and feel the need to cheat and can't resist", when in reality cheating is against the rules THEY agreed upon.

Look, when you sign a contract for a business deal, just because you don't feel like following it anymore, does this mean you can just back out of it? This would be a white collar crime.

This is not simply about morality, ethics, or moralization, this is not about self control, it's about intelligence. A smart person can get what they want by changing the laws, while a stupid person has to break the law. If you don't like the rules, change them, but follow the rules you set!

The most basic code of ethics, that even criminals and gangsters follow, keep your word and follow the rules you set. If you don't keep your word, everything that comes out of your mouth means shit. If you don't follow the rules then there are no rules, do you know what that means?

 

Would it be ok for, say, an 18-year-old to cry in public because he's just been dumped by his first proper girlfriend, who he's been seeing for 3 weeks? I remember seeing something like this on one of those 'police on patrol' documentaries a while back. The poor lad crying buckets; the officer comforting him; me watching and laughing because seeing men cry so openly is such an unusual sight.

Trivial to some. Not to him.

 

No, it is not ok to cry in public over that. The 18 year old is still young and has much to learn about life.

First, 3 weeks? That's it? A fart in the wind relative to our lifespan.
Secondly, if the girl dumped him, why cry? She didn't love him.
Thirdly, can't you wait until you get somewhere private?
Lastly, he's 18. There are more females than there are males on planet Earth. Have fun.

This would be trivial. The 18 year old doesn't realize it, but it is trivial.
3 years, I would maybe understand. Even then, I would say, do it in private.
3 weeks? Fart in the wind.

Sure it's not trivial to him, but that is why some of us cry in public and some of us don't. You can go ahead and cry in public if you want to, though.

 

I can understand him crying, but he's stupid to do so in public. What if the ex-gf ever found out he cried for her? It would only add to her pleasure.

 

Rationalisations, both. When you've got reason enough to cry, you'll cry. Where you are and how many people you're surrounded by won't matter.

When I need to I will, as will you - even though society forbids.

 

Yes, go ahead and cry over such things.

That will be the moment you lose your manhood. Unless.......