Is Gender Orientation biological?

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by Buddha1, Dec 26, 2005.

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Do you think Gender orientation is biological or psychological?

  1. Gender orientation is Biological

    10 vote(s)
    58.8%
  2. Gender orientation is pscyhological

    3 vote(s)
    17.6%
  3. I don't know and I'd like to find out

    4 vote(s)
    23.5%
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  1. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    You know, Buddha1, I think I actually agree with your last post.

    Let me read it again...

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  3. Buddha1 Registered Senior Member

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    You don't know what my views on 'natural' or 'unnatural' are! Or do you?

    It is difficult to disagree with my principle of what is 'natural' and what is not!
     
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  5. Buddha1 Registered Senior Member

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    So, Gender is basically biological, and our gender orientation should ideally be a reflection of our biological gender. But it isn't always the case.

    Whenever our social gender veers away from our biological gender, it leads to ill health, mental stress and unhappiness. Our gender health suffers. Gender health should be a part of our 'gender rights'.
     
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  7. Buddha1 Registered Senior Member

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    Also, now that we agree that Gender is basically natural (whatever that natural is), we must also understand that our gender identity is one of the most basic identities that we have, and it needs to be validated by our society.

    When our society denies our gender either expression or recognition/ acknowledgement/ validity and a dignified place in the society, it affects our gender health.

    Our real Gender is our most basic social identity which is in tandem with nature. It's manipulation affects us deep down. Our Gender is more important to us than our outer sex. We see ourselves according to our gender and not according to our outer sex. To take an example, a woman whose gender is extremely masculine, will see herself as a man rather than a woman. She will lead her life as a man, treat others from the point of view of a man and others too will treat her like a man --- more than like a woman. Her sexual feelings (whether they are towards men or women or both) will also be masculine.

    This is how important our biological gender is.
     
  8. Buddha1 Registered Senior Member

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    Can we now say that the western society totally denies us our Gender identity? There is no concept of it. The society doesn't even acknowledge gender as natural.

    (Traditional societies are not really perfect, just a little better!)
     
  9. Buddha1 Registered Senior Member

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    So then, feminine gendered males are seen merely as 'diseased' people, with something 'wrong' with them. Transexuals are referred to psychologists. And their natural and positive trait is seen as a result of 'negative' environment. This is one kind of male oppression.

    It would not be wrong to say that feminine gendered males have been the most oppressed, misunderstood, denigrated, wronged and persecuted as a group.
     
  10. Buddha1 Registered Senior Member

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    Let's make a list of how many minimum 'natural' genders should an ideal society have in order to ensure the gender health of its people:

    1. Homo-gendered or straight men:
    Outer Sex = male; Gender = Masculine (irrespective of 'sexual preference')

    2. Hetero-gendered or Feminine men:
    Outer Sex = male; Gender = Feminine
    (irrespective of 'sexual preference')

    3. Homo-gendered women:
    Outer Sex = female; Gender = Feminine
    (irrespective of 'sexual preference')

    4. Hetero-gendered or Masculine women: Outer Sex = female; Gender = Masculine
    (irrespective of 'sexual preference')

    5. Two-spirited people: People whose outer sex is both male and female, transexuals, etc.
    (irrespective of 'sexual preference')

    In fact many ancient societies had these very gender divisions in their society --- and in this manner were far more advanced than the modern west. A case in point are the traditional societies of Bali and Sumatra.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2006
  11. Buddha1 Registered Senior Member

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    I have talked earlier about how the society has forcefully, through manipulation propagated same-sex feelings as 'femininine' and 'unmanly'. This pscyhologically --- and artificially, ties the same-sex needs of men with whatever little femininity they may have. This process makes these needs extremely unpalatable and 'disgusting' for men, who suppress them deep within them --- along with their minimal femininity, and then with the help of inbuilt socio-psychological mechanims being continually sustained by the society, they keep such feelings from coming out.

    Whenever, the feelings inadvertently come out --- e.g. in situations where there is a strong male-eroticism around (let's say sleeping together with a man you like!) the nature exerts itself, and the person cannot control himself, especially if he is young. then what happens is that his natural femininity even when its minimal (and everyone has some femininity in them!), too comes out involuntarily, as it was tied together with the same-sex needs.

    This is a scary situation for the youth, who has not yet accomplished himself as a 'MAN'. No man wants the burden of femininity in the men's world of race for manhood. He immediately starts fighting with his sexual needs and 'fiercely' puts a lid on them.

    But sometimes the unexpected happens --- e.g. the person comes into contact with a desirable man who shows a mutual interest in him, The same process as enumerated above follows, and the sexual feelings are sought to be controlled --- often fiercely.

    But this time the situation is way different. One is aware of the other man's attraction towards oneself, and this continuously draws one to the other man. a long internal struggle ensues between ones strong sexual needs which are extremely pleasurable on the one hand and at the same time despised, disowned and unwanted --- and the fear of social femininity on the other hand. This process may take one year, within which time the man keeps struggling with his natural needs but makes compromises in the end.

    As part of his struggle and in order to wipe out his dreaded femininity, the man would start accumulating 'social masculinity' with increased vigour than is normal. Often this may entail having lots of sex with girls. But eventually he will have to submit to his feelings for the man.

    The second time round he will seek out the man he most probably had rejected earlier (nothing would have been said or acknowledged) and will have psychologically allowed himself a little bit of expression of those feelings. He thinks he has learned to withhold his feelings of 'femininity' for sometime (its actually very easy because he doesn't have much femininity in any case!), but when a limit he had set for himself is crossed his 'femininity' leaps out again, and he gets freaked out again.

    He would again hastily break his relationship and make a retreat. Then again what would follow is a long interval of struggle with his feelings and a mad rush to accumulate 'social masculinity'. But the person will find peace only with his sexual need for men. And so he will secretly seek a man again.

    Fortunately or unfortunately, at least in the west, most men due to strong social hostilities don't go through a situation like the above. Good looking, masculine men are more likely to face such situations as they are more likely to be liked by another man.

    Also, a man would not behave like this if the other man is a 'gay' (meaning feminine gendered male with a 'gay' stamp on him). Then he is likely to treat him condescendingly and may offer to 'penetrate' him or do such stuff which will save his social masculinity, and not give him social femininity.
     
  12. Buddha1 Registered Senior Member

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    The thing is, if only the young men would stop struggling with their feelings and allow their feelings of same-sex need to linger and could bravely face the feeling of femininity that erupts alongwith it. It will not take them long to find out that the feeling of femininity was temporary and inconsequential.

    But this is unlikely to happen without proper counselling, unless the society stops enforcing 'social femininity' with same-sex feelings.
     
  13. Buddha1 Registered Senior Member

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    The only way to liberate men is to break this artificially created link between social femininity and same-sex needs. Untill then, men will continue to be scared of them and to disown them.
     
  14. Buddha1 Registered Senior Member

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    The only way the above can happen is when men wake up, get united and together fight to gain control of their lives again --- especially to reclaim their natural masculinity that would end their dependance on 'social masculinity' as also the age old oppression.

    This is almost impossible to achieve as long as the society is heterosexual/ mixed gender and women are present everywhere --- and there are hardly any male-only spaces left in the society. Women (as also the handful of heterosexuals and homosexuals) will surely see to it that men don't unite --- and they have the power to do this.

    It is like a vicious circle. Where and how do we start to break it? The answer must be somewhere there...... we just have to stick at it long enough to find it!
     
  15. Giambattista sssssssssssssssssssssssss sssss Valued Senior Member

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    I'll go on a little holiday until then.

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  16. Buddha1 Registered Senior Member

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    FINAL SUMMARY OF THIS THREAD

    The final conclusion of this thread has been that Gender is basically a natural/ biological phenomenon (natural gender), although society has enforced its own concept of Gender (social gender) --- which may or may not tally with the natural gender.

    There are two kinds of natural gender:

    - Natural Masculinity

    - Natural Femininity

    Similarly there are two kinds of social gender:

    - Social Masculinity

    - Social Femininity

    Our Gender orientation is influenced by both --- our Natural gender as well as the roles/ concepts/ expectations of social gender.

    Whenever social gender goes against natural gender it harms us and makes us unhealthy and unhappy.
     
  17. Buddha1 Registered Senior Member

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    3,219
    I am requesting the moderators to lock this thread now. Please take any further discussions on this topic to the thread : Masculinity and men
     
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