Is faith a reliable path to knowledge?

Discussion in 'Comparative Religion' started by James R, Jul 23, 2015.

  1. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    And round-n-round we go.
    Define "human spirit". How about animal spirit?
    Define "soul". How about animal soul?
     
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  3. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    I did use a Bible verse to explain it.

    Hebrews 11:1King James Version (KJV)
    11 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
     
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  5. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    Soul: the spiritual or immaterial part of a human being or animal, regarded as immortal.

    Human: relating to or characteristic of humankind.

    Animal: a living organism which feeds on organic matter, typically having specialized sense organs and nervous system and able to respond rapidly to stimuli
    .

    Rather than do everything for you, I'll leave you to work out the answers from these basic definitions.

    Jan.
     
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  7. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    How about all Great Apes, our closest cousins. Are they characteristic of humankind or just living organisms? And are Humans not Animals as you defined it? I believe Humans are an invasive predatory animal.

    Ah, Humans are capable of abstract thought. How do you know Humans the only animal capable of abstract thought?

    How about reincarnation of a human soul into an animal? Lots of people believe in that.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2017
  8. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    Sorry, I must have missed this explanation. But no worries, this is perfect.

    ''Hope'' is a force. It's more than just wanting something, it is a real desire for something, or for something to occur.
    Most things we hope for, are unknown, and unseen to us. Someone may hope to be president some day, I'm sure we all hope to be happy, and content. To strive toward those goals of hope, is to have faith that you can achieve these outcomes. Religious faith is no different. The adherent aspires to go to heaven, or to be with, or merge into God. So the adherent follows the principles of his religion in the hope of becoming qualified. Like aspirations of becoming a great leader, the adherent does not know if it is going to occur. The only evidence he/she has, is that he/she has the will, and the ability, to achieve that. The adherent then uses that meager evidence as a driving force, in the hope that somehow or other it will fall into place. The religious person who believes in God (theist), will hope that God will help them, because they cannot do it alone. This is why 'faith' in the explanation you gave, describes faith as a substance, rather than a state of mind. The whole thing amounts to having faith, not that faith is a separate phenomenon.

    jan.
     
  9. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    IOW a material quality or value?
     
  10. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    I think we are animals. Human animals. I think the definition of animals, given, is correct, and we fall into that category.

    I'm sure that my dog, Roxy, is capable of abstract thought. But it is in accordance with her dogs body, and nature. She only needs to know what she needs to know. It is the same with us humans, but I believe we have a larger capacity. I believe we have the capacity to know God, personally. Not just as a provider, or creator.

    If you're asking if I believe in that, the answer is yes.
    Is that why you brought it up?

    jan.
     
  11. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    In this case it is both material and spiritual. It is a case of what you are aware of.
    Life naturally defaults to material awareness, because it is actual, and sensual.
    As humans develop their intelligence, they naturally start to enquire about God, and spirituality.

    jan.
     
  12. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, awhile ago I related the story of an Alpha Chimp who was intent on defending his family from the onslaught of a monsoon thunder storm, an invisible enemy which was throwing water and fire at him and made his family terrified with loud sounds. Thor?
     
  13. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    I find that rather prejudicial. Many animals have much keener senses than humans. And there are many accounts of dogs saving their master. Or a Silverback Gorilla protecting a child which had fallen into the Gorilla compound. Or an Orangutan saving a duckling from drowning. Or Koko naming her manx kitten "All Ball". Whales communicating (telling stories) over hundreds of miles in the ocean. Or a Dolphin playing with human bathers but leaving a pregnant woman unmolested. Migrating birds which use the earth's magnetic fields to map their routes.
    Even mosquitos become more active long before we know a thunderstorm is approaching.
    Invisible barometric pressures, which we can only measure with barometers. Honeybees which are responsible for feeding ~70% of all herbivores on earth. I would call that impressive accomplishments, worthy of the greatest "spiritual" respect.

    How about the sun, which provided the energy for all these miraculous evolutionary processes?

    Yet you claim humans are superior to all that. If we are so enlightened, why do we make machines that destroy the environment which benignly supports all those unique qualities which allowed all those different species to withstand the test of natural selection for millions of years.
    Well, it seemed a logical assumption.
    Are you also vegetarian (Vegan)?
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2017
  14. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    Wishing something to be true doesn't make it so. It's probably true that people experience happiness and contentment, but I have no evidence that the concept of god is any different than Middle Earth. Sure I want to go to Middle Earth and hang out with elves and hobbits, but I'd be wasting my life to spend more than a moment trying to manifest that desire. Life is what happens to you when you are busy making other plans, to quote John Lennon.
     
  15. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    Obviously. So what?

    Way to avoid the discussion SP.

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    jan.
     
  16. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    Faith is pretending your wishes are true.
    I thought this was a discussion.
     
  17. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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  18. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    How ''faith'', pretending?

    Surely if one is pretending, then one is, simply pretending. No need to call it another name.

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    jan.
     
  19. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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  20. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    That's okay. I don't find it so.

    I'm talking specifically about 'self-awareness', not physical abilities. I'm well aware that humans aren't the strongest, fastest, etc.

    Really?
    Where did I claim that?
    Do you actually read what I write?

    Vegetarian.

    jan.
     
  21. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Did you watch it?

    If you did, did you find it interesting and informative?

    Do you agree that our perceptions and experiences are actually a mental best guess of the information we gather, process, and represent in our conscious mind as a hallucination created by the brain's neural network?.
     
  22. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    For a couple of minutes.

    No.
    What point are you trying to make?

    Jan.
     
  23. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    That's what I do, and what everyone would do if they were honest about it. Faith is pretending to know something you don't know.
     
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