Ironywatch: Turks condemn condemnation of Armenian Genocide by condeming Armenians

Those who are ignorant of history are doomed to repeat it. Except that it's really the Armenians who are doomed.

Ooooh. That'll learn us.

Why? What would that help?

Maybe they weren't. Genocide is genocide.

Oh, well that seems fair.

British inquiries make it "necessary" to force 100,000 people on the street? And here some people wondered if Erdogan was a radical or something. Of course, why should he do anything different? It's not as though any of his supporters have enough insight to wonder if the Armenians are right.

 

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Strange this Turkish denial phenomena. Against all the definitive evidence that history provides, the just cannot call it "genocide".

 

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http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n....-apologizes-to-turkeys-roma-people-2010-03-19

 

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That doesn't change anything from the initial post in the OP. It's the same thing, essentially.

 

It's not strange at all when you consider that it isn't a matter of history or evidence, but politics.

 

So sort of a scapegoat issue?

 

The term I would use is "reactionary," but it all comes down to the Turks wanting to avoid politically disadvantageous labels.

We can see that they don't really object to the substance of the issue, since they don't dispute that they killed a shitload of Armenians. And are responding in a way guaranteed to highlight the fact that they still don't get along with Armenia, and don't seem to be interested in doing so.

They just don't want to be listed alongside the Nazis and Khmer Rouge, and will stake populist, chauvinist positions on that basis. Fairly typical for a resurgent empire, really.

 

i don't really see the irony

 

oh they're expelling ARMENIANS, i thought they were expelling AMERICANS...

well gee, i DO kinda feel it a bit ironic, why punish those you've been "accused" of treating badly?
i mean it wasn't the armenians who declared it a genocide, seems they know how to treat history.. so why should they pay for the stupidity of the americans? why should anyone pay at all, let the US blabber all it wants!!

or did the armenians concur with the US's statement?

am i missing something here?

 

bells agreeing with me!

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you having a fever or something?:bugeye:

yet the turks didn't make a fuss till the US declared it a genocide???
the world and the armenians accepted it as a genocide maybe, i mean it went without saying really.. but the world and the armenians didn't hold a fancy meeting and had a raise of hands and went through all the official bullshit like the US did, it's one thing to have people know you lied a certain day, it's another to be called a liar by...say Pinocchio

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it's as i said before, they treated the genocide they suffered like most other people who went through genocide. nothing selective or unique.

yeah.. they're more of hypocrits.. but on a whole new level of that word.
bells, you DO know the US is committing multiple genocides as we speak?

[ok, i know that'll spark a war here, so you may want to not reply to that], here;
do you know that the US has committed genocides in their history? lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of them, it's their specialty, as i said in some other thread about the same subject, the US was founded not on a genocide, but on an annihilation of the red indians.
have they declared those?
well?

they didn't hand pick a genocide out of the thousands in human history and made a fuss about it, so no, they're not stupid.

unfortunatly, i guess not.
but then again, maybe the turks made it up to them, compensated them one way or another, for them to forget it or shut up about it, it may have been official and maybe it wasn't, i don't know of the previous status of armenians before the US's declaration (omg that's maybe why the US declared it to begin with, to throw logs on the dead fire and restart the internal wars, man i'm now a political genius!)

yup, pretty ugly past, but how were they doing in the near present?

it would be a bit uncalled for now if the blacks in the US made an official statement likt the one on turky but instead to the whites, don't you think?

 

You don't see the irony in someone responding to accusations of genocide with the threat of forced displacement targeted at a particular ethnicity (aka. genocide)?

 

Why do they call themselves Armenians if they are living in Turkey? Do they consider themselves refugees? Is it not safe in Armenia?

 

Well, I can honestly state that the thread has at least opened some debate.

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Sam, why does it matter if they call themselves Armenians or not?

Scifes, I've never heard of any compensation being allotted to the Armenians for the Genocide.

(In unrelated aspect, I certainly agree that the US should declare what happened to Native Americans a Genocide, if not a Holocaust. However, this is a matter for another thread.)

 

Well, the 100000 he threatened to expel are illegal immigrants, but surely, it's wrong of the prime minister to take his frustration out on the Armenian diaspora and the Armenians present in his country, whether they are there illegally, or not. I mean, showing this sort of hasty reaction right after Swedish and US lawmakers were in the process of approving the Ottoman-era killings of Armenians as genocide is not..uhm..that wise, well it's certainly not going to help the Turks' case in convincing people that it wasn't a genocide. I mean..the way Erdogan reacted reminds quite much of the happenings of 1915.

What can I say...glad to see that their aspirations to join the EU are crumbling even more apart.

By the way, speaking of genocide, were the events in Darfur ever officially recognised as genocide, or not?

 

I would hope so, but I would bet not.

 

If it's any contribution to the subject, as aTurk, I don't think anyone's going to be expelled from the country. Erdogan recieved many reactions and he reacted back pretty much the same. I really don't know or get the exact structure of his policy or there lack of.
This situation is very smilar to the others that happened in the past. Noone, but simply noone, really cares about anything that happened in 1915.

Here is the drill: America wants to get back to its little 'strategic ally' in the Middle East, bang! yellow card of genocide. Then just after it, -generally- the president implies nothing 'official' is at stake and in time, things go back to 'normal'. After all, the bargaining chip is a military air base just at the door of the Middle East and that's what the whole policy is about.

So, if you all manage to get down from your high horses, you could see this as the political game it is. Noone can wish more than me for this subject to be resolved, but unfortunately, I doubt that's the case.

Sam: They are "Armenians". They have their own schools and churches.