Iraqi Arab Jews

S.A.M. · Sep 1, 2009

GeoffP said: ↑

Would the Palestinians have been dispossessed, if not for the constant suppression of Jewish freedoms in the Middle East?

What was it? How can we know, when they were constantly being evicted and suppressed? Let them develop it on their own.
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I can see you know nothing about Iraqi Jews and prefer to keep it that way.

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GeoffP · Sep 1, 2009

I can see you know nothing about Iraqi Jews and prefer to keep it that way. :shrug:

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S.A.M. · Sep 1, 2009

Lets see a source, I've given a meticulously researched history book and a first person account of an Iraqi Zionist Jew [neither of which you read, clearly].

What have you got?

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GeoffP · Sep 1, 2009

Sam, we've been over it several times.

Perhaps you favour this link, for starters? How will you dismiss it or avoid? One wonders.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farhud

S.A.M. · Sep 1, 2009

Sorry I need something more reliable than wiki. Aren't you supposed to be an academic?

[Meanwhile the book link I gave alongwith the account of the underground Zionist Iraqi gives an excellent background to the Zionist involvement in the 1941 "pogrom"]

GeoffP · Sep 1, 2009

Oh? Do I work in history? Or can you not read links? Your avoidances are getting less creative. Let us then conclude that the above is a given. We follow up and complete the argument with the following link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabs_and_antisemitism#Medieval_times

And there we are. Further complaints?

S.A.M. · Sep 1, 2009

Like I said the history link I gave alongwith the Zionist Iraqi narrative which you clearly should read before posting your hasbara links do not give any validity to the info you are providing.

GeoffP · Sep 1, 2009

And there we are. Thanks for playing!

And what, again, is hasbara?

S.A.M. · Sep 1, 2009

Yeah thanks for playing. My authoritative sources vs your publicly edited encyclopedia, which for all I know, you wrote yourself.

Hasbara is bombing synagogues in Iraq to get cheap labour in occupied lands.

Hasbara is killing Jews to drive them like sheep to the Promised Land

But here, its the British using the Jews as pawns in their power games:

e.g.

King Faisal died in 1933. He was succeeded by his son Ghazi, who died in a motor car accident in 1939. The crown then passed to Ghazi's 4-year-old son, Faisal II, whose uncle, Abd al-Ilah, was named regent. Abd al-Ilah selected Nouri el-Said as prime minister. El-Said supported the British and, as hatred of the British grew, he was forced from office in March 1940 by four senior army officers who advocated Iraq's independence from Britain. Calling themselves the Golden Square, the officers compelled the regent to name as prime minister Rashid Ali al-Kilani, leader of the National Brotherhood party.

The time was 1940 and Britain was reeling from a strong German offensive. Al-Kilani and the Golden Square saw this as their opportunity to rid themselves of the British once and for all. Cautiously they began to negotiate for German support, which led the pro-British regent Abd al-Ilah to dismiss al-Kilani in January 1941. By April, however, the Golden Square officers had reinstated the prime minister.

This provoked the British to send a military force into Basra on April 12, 1941. Basra, Iraq's second largest city, had a Jewish population of 30,000. Most of these Jews made their livings from import/export, money changing, retailing, as workers in the airports, railways, and ports, or as senior government employees.

On the same day, April 12, supporters of the pro-British regent notified the Jewish leaders that the regent wanted to meet with them. As was their custom, the leaders brought flowers for the regent. Contrary to custom, however, the cars that drove them to the meeting place dropped them off at the site where the British soldiers were concentrated.

Photographs of the Jews appeared in the following day's newspapers with the banner "Basra Jews Receive British Troops with Flowers." That same day, April 13, groups of angry Arab youths set about to take revenge against the Jews. Several Muslim notables in Basra heard of the plan and calmed things down. Later, it was learned that the regent was not in Basra at all and that the matter was a provocation by his pro-British supporters to bring about an ethnic war in order to give the British army a pretext to intervene.

The British continued to land more forces in and around Basra. On May 7, 1941, their Gurkha unit, composed of Indian soldiers from that ethnic group, occupied Basra's el-Oshar quarter, a neighborhood with a large Jewish population. The soldiers, led by British officers, began looting. Many shops in the commercial district were plundered. Private homes were broken into. Cases of attempted rape were reported. Local residents, Jews and Muslims, responded with pistols and old rifles, but their bullets were no match for the soldiers' Tommy Guns.

Afterwards, it was learned that the soldiers acted with the acquiescence, if not the blessing, of their British commanders. (It should be remembered that the Indian soldiers, especially those of the Gurkha unit, were known for their discipline, and it is highly unlikely they would have acted so riotously without orders.) The British goal clearly was to create chaos and to blacken the image of the pro-nationalist regime in Baghdad, thereby giving the British forces reason to proceed to the capital and to overthrow the al-Kilani government.

Baghdad fell on May 30. Al-Kilani fled to Iran, along with the Golden Square officers. Radio stations run by the British reported that Regent Abd al-Ilah would be returning to the city and that thousands of Jews and others were planning to welcome him. What inflamed young Iraqis against the Jews most, however, was the radio announcer Yunas Bahri on the German station "Berlin," who reported in Arabic that Jews from Palestine were fighting alongside the British against Iraqi soldiers near the city of Faluja. The report was false.

On Sunday, June 1, unarmed fighting broke out in Baghdad between Jews who were still celebrating their Shabuoth holiday and young Iraqis who thought the Jews were celebrating the return of the pro-British regent. That evening, a group of Iraqis stopped a bus, removed the Jewish passengers, murdered one and fatally wounded a second.

About 8:30 the following morning, some 30 individuals in military and police uniforms opened fire along el-Amin street, a small downtown street whose jewelry, tailor and grocery shops were Jewish-owned. By 11 a.m., mobs of Iraqis with knives, switchblades and clubs were attacking Jewish homes in the area.

The riots continued throughout Monday, June 2. During this time, many Muslims rose to defend their Jewish neighbors, while some Jews successfully defended themselves. There were 124 killed and 400 injured, according to a report written by a Jewish Agency messenger who was in Iraq at the time. Other estimates, possibly less reliable, put the death toll higher, as many as 500, with from 650 to 2,000 injured. From 500 to 1,300 stores and more than 1,000 homes and apartments were looted.

Who was behind the rioting in the Jewish quarter? Yosef Meir, one of the most prominent activists in the Zionist underground movement in Iraq, known then as Yehoshafat, claims it was the British. Meir, who now works for the Israeli Defense Ministry, argues that, in order to make it appear that the regent was returning as the savior who would reestablish law and order, the British stirred up the riots against the most vulnerable and visible segment in the city, the Jews. And, not surprisingly, the riots ended as soon as the regent's loyal soldiers entered the capital.[4]
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GeoffP · Sep 1, 2009

S.A.M. said: ↑

Yeah thanks for playing. My authoritative sources vs your publicly edited encyclopedia, which for all I know, you wrote yourself.
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But which, I didn't, and never have done. Nor the cited articles within it. You only have a problem with the credibility of the intertubes when it doesn't support what you're saying. Well, live with it.

Hasbara is bombing synagogues in Iraq to get cheap labour in occupied lands.

Hasbara is killing Jews to drive them like sheep to the Promised Land
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I hadn't the foggiest idea what you were implying with the term hasbara as applied to me. But I looked it up.

Various people may be trained in hasbara by the Israeli government:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasbara
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Awesome! You're the third or fourth person to accuse me of being an Israeli operative. I thank you.

But here, its the British using the Jews as pawns in their power games:
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So...it's the fault of the British...that the pogrom in Baghdad happened. I see. And are they responsible for this too?:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabs_and_antisemitism#cite_note-6

I take back what I said before. You have indeed learned some new methods of deflection. Kudos, I suppose.

S.A.M. · Sep 1, 2009

You should take up your issues with the author. The Iraqi Zionist Jew who was there.
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His friends were killed in those riots, its why he joined the Zionist underground.

GeoffP · Sep 1, 2009

Again, you miss the point.

S.A.M. · Sep 1, 2009

Yeah, the British played one ethnic group against another wherever they went. Tamils wvs Sinhalese, Sudanese Muslims vs Christians, Indian Hindus vs Muslims, Irish Catholics vs Protestants. Arab Jews vs Muslims

“There are people (Muslims) who control spacious territories teeming with manifest and hidden resources. They dominate the intersections of world routes. Their lands were the cradles of human civilizations and religions. These people have one faith, one language, one history and the same aspirations. No natural barriers can isolate these people from one another … if, per chance, this nation were to be unified into one state, it would then take the fate of the world into its hands and would separate Europe from the rest of the world. Taking these considerations seriously, a foreign body should be planted in the heart of this nation to prevent the convergence of its wings in such a way that it could exhaust its powers in never-ending wars. It could also serve as a springboard for the West to gain its coveted objects.”

- British Prime Minister Henry Bannerman, Campbell-Bannerman Report, 1907
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What a lovely people

GeoffP · Sep 1, 2009

We are, it's true.

Yet, again, this has nothing to do with the OP or the fact of the pogroms of 1941, or anything before then.

S.A.M. · Sep 1, 2009

The pogroms of 1941 were conducted under British supervision and after their arrival in Basra, they stopped when the British puppet replaced the popular choice [surprise!]. You can read accounts by self defined Arab Jews who have started "taking back" their narrative from Zionists.

Sadly, Zionism is still the biggest hurdle to their assimilation into Arab communities:

They speak Arabic. They listen to Arabic music. They eat Arabic food. Were you to pass by an Arab Jewish synagogue during prayer, you would hear strains of music by Om Kolthoum, Mohamed Abdel Wahab, and Sayed Darwiche. And yet, here in New York, they are not considered a part of the Arab American community – by Arab Christians, Arab Muslims, or even by themselves (for the most part). Why not?

If this is the case, why the radical refusal to call themselves Arabs or associate themselves with Arab Americans?

There are several factors. If you ask most Arabs, they would identify with the plight of the Palestinians, more or less. Furthermore, a lot of Arabs believe that Americans don’t really understand what’s going on in the Middle East.

I think that part of the reason they’re less willing to associate themselves with Arabs is because of the ‘ism’ associated with the politics in Israel. They need to identify themselves as Jewish and it’s very hard, culturally, except in a few places, to be Arab and Jewish at the same time. In America, it seems very strange to people that you can be both an Arab and a Jew.

http://www.bintjbeil.com/articles/en/021016_arabjews.html
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Hopefully, one soon, that will change

mike47 · Sep 1, 2009

All the Jews of the world are welcomed in Israel regardless to their origins or nationalities at the same time Palestinians are chased from their own homes in their own backyards by Jews . If you criticize them.....well they start their trumpet about racism, holocaust, anti semitism and .....etc .....
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.

GeoffP · Sep 1, 2009

S.A.M. said: ↑

TSadly, Zionism is still the biggest hurdle to their assimilation into Arab communities
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Rather, the threat of persecution is.

But hopefully, one day soon, that will change.

You didn't cite your article above. Shall we just assume it came from "jew watch" then?

S.A.M. · Sep 1, 2009

I think a link is considered a cite for an interview. Do you have doubts to the veracity? Because the authors are listed and can be contacted by you for verification.\

Its good to see you carry on the ole divide and rule btw. Can't get rid of the habit of supporting white settler expansionist regimes eh?

GeoffP · Sep 1, 2009

No need, really. I already know who's on the board at AMEU, thanks.
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S.A.M. · Sep 1, 2009

GeoffP said: ↑

Rather, the threat of persecution is.
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Its ironic you should say that. Who do you think will persecute them for their Arab language, Arab food, Arab music and Arab culture, not to mention their Middle Eastern looks? The Arabs?
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