Infinity

Discussion in 'Science & Society' started by BigHead, Apr 3, 2011.

?

are there an infinite number of yous somewhere out there.

  1. yes

    8.3%
  2. no

    33.3%
  3. maybe

    41.7%
  4. who cares

    50.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. BigHead Registered Member

    Messages:
    16
    I don’t necessarily believe this but I’ve heard talk about there being an infinite number of universes which would mean there are an infinite number of copies of all of us out there living out every conceivable variable of possibilities. Someone explain this? If this is plausible I have a perplexing part B to the question.
     
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  3. SciWriter Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,015
    This is also possible in one very large universe, such as ours. and if our universe is finite then the copies are finite, too. Whether the copy is perfect or not depends on how fine a resolution there can be.

    On the other hand, if more universes have popped up, or if our universe is somehow infinite, then there many more copies, even another Earth perhaps.


    Here is a larger take on the while thing, of the Implications of Infinity and Eternity:

    (Sorry for the canned response, but it still is what I would have typed, for I did once for this kind of response)

    The All, meaning Totality, as we know, cannot be bounded (or it wouldn’t be the All), and so its extent must be infinite. Nor can it have a beginning, for then, again, it wouldn’t be the All, and so it must be eternal.

    In an infinite eternal place, which I will still call the universe or the cosmos, every possible combination of matter and energy (unstructured matter) exists, not only right now, even many times over (due to infinity), but ever will and did, even many more times over (due to eternity). Since the Earth (and everything known) is a part of ‘possible’, since it is here, there’s no problem with that use of the word ‘possible’.

    It’s only those things that we don’t know are possible that we can’t say for sure. We’ll have to wait for better computers to figure it out, a daunting task since even a state of one change of one atom requires a precursor form and a series of prior events cascading backwards through infinite time and across infinite space.

    However, there is still every possible combination of matter and energy; it’s just the resolution that remains unknown. Think of morphing objects together; the resolution is like how many intermediate stages there are (possibly infinite, but who knows).

    I am calling this notion ‘supercontinuity’. It says that any object known to us, whether a galaxy, planet, person, or whatever has a prodigious number number of very similar examples in space somewhere, varying along every possible parameter. This supercontinuity must be true by virtue of the universe’s permutational variability. The only question, still, is what is its resolution: how closely can these (separated) instances of any given type of object resemble each other?

    For example, even on Earth, between human races, the percentage of DNA separation is less than .1 percent (2% between chimps and humans). There is even a web site where one can look up their so-called ‘doubles’ on Earth.

    Identical twins have identical DNA, but differing experiences (so we are not yet at the stage of identicality). To be exactly the same, they would have to have the same molecules and quantum states.

    But, heck, there is all of space and all of time; thus, it is very likely, even certain, that at least some intermediate states of a certain resolution exist somewhere at this very moment, and always did and will at any given time. If there is not exactly another Earth, surely there could be one whose only minor difference was one unnoticeable at the atomic level.

    So it is that every loved one we have ever lost is alive and well somewhere (as an exact duplicate). Of course, they may be separated from us by a humongous distance, but are indisputably alive right now; this instant, as they ever were and will be. They wouldn't know us, though.

    Such it is, in this way, that moments are never lost in the infinite eternal universe, for every touchdown pass and first footstep on the moon is still ever happening somewhere. Somewhere, too, dinosaurs roam distant lands just like those of Earth. So, the universe contains its own indelible history and future. All moments of every object’s history exist permanently in space, separated by near-infinite distances (if not infinite).
     
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  5. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    19,022
    Supposition. Just because you use the word "all" doesn't mean that the linguistic limitations apply physically.

    Really?

    Another supposition.
    If they're identical then they would lead identical lives and die at the identical time.
    Dead is dead.
     
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  7. BigHead Registered Member

    Messages:
    16
    if there are infinite mes playing out every possable conclusion, have each one of the billions of sperm my body produced somewhere in this infinity fertalized an egg, wow I have billions of children.
     
  8. SciWriter Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,015
    OK, I stand corrected.

    Yes, dead is dead, but the identical lives don't have to happen at exactly the same time.


    I'm essentially thinking that eternity is long enough and infinity wide enough for energy to go though all of its possible paces, over and over again.


    All I need is another Dywyddyr, ha-ha.
     
  9. SciWriter Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,015
    I heard that Genghis Khan had a lot, too, real ones.
     
  10. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    19,022
    Then they can't be identical.
    Our personalities (and therefore our actions, decisions, choices and lives) depend to a certain extent on our surroundings. Change the time and the environment changes. Up to and including what is visible outside of our atmosphere. It may be small but earlier/ later discoveries of black holes/ quasars/ even planets could affect science and have knock-on effects through to societies, thence to individuals.
     
  11. SciWriter Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,015
    That's true. We'll have to accept near identicals. It appears that each person is unique in the history of the cosmos.

    I saw one of your copies goofing up at a bar in the U.S. while you were still in England. Lucky he wasn't near your home town.
     
  12. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    19,022
    Really?
    You know what I look like?
    "Goofing up" (whatever that is) certainly isn't like me, so he's obviously less "identical" than you first supposed.
    I wonder how he got the money to get to the states.
    I wonder why he was in the states.
     
  13. SciWriter Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,015
    I saw you in the member's thread. Not really.

    He's in jail now for crimes. He had a copy of your ID, but they saw through it. His imitated King's English was a bit off, too. He went to far; he should have just charged items to your credit card account.


    When I was in the intelligence service we found out that the head of the Soviet Empire had been replaced by a ‘Conspiracy’ duplicate who was going to nuke the free world. On very short notice I had to rush over there and shoot the guy, after which they were able to confirm the DNA difference.

    This could become a real problem again someday.
     
  14. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    19,022
    That's what I thought.

    ID? What ID?
    PS my "ID" doesn't say "Dywyddyr".

    I should say so. "The King's English" exists only as a book title.

    That would be difficult. I don't have a credit card.

    Uh huh. Next time I have a chat with the GRU I'll ask their opinion.
     
  15. SciWriter Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,015
    Of course I’m not at liberty to say much more here about the operation, plus the records were destroyed on purpose; however, I do have a video of it that no one knows about… 4 parts, as the suspense must build up. A POW rescue mission, also in Russia, is intertwined with the assassination footage, and is just as interesting.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELqgD44EFxg

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8MrSjxtqSA

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqZFxqLwA2A

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I--uv7_rjrw
     
  16. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

    Messages:
    24,690
    It all depends on the cardinality of each of the infinities. Some infinities really are "bigger," for lack of a better word, than others.

    It's quite possible that the infinite number of ways of arranging elementary particles is larger than the infinite number of universes that happen to have sprung up from their own individual Big Bangs, in conformance with the Second Law of Thermodynamics, which says spatially and temporally local reversals of entropy are possible, but not necessarily commonplace. If this happens to be the case, then in all those infinite universes there may be absolutely no one or no thing that's even remotely similar to you, much less identical.
     
  17. brokenpower Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    237
    This sounds a lot like certain laws of String Theory... but it is only a theory of course.
     
  18. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,131
    There is only one identical me and it is not even really identical. The other me is an evil me and he has a goatee. I saw this on some sort of science program a about stars or treks or something.
     
  19. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

    Messages:
    24,690
    I wish they wouldn't call it String Theory, because it's not a theory. It is a hypothesis. In science, a theory is a hypothesis that has been proven true beyond a reasonable doubt. The String Model isn't even close to that.

    We wonder why people say "evolution is only a theory" when we toss around stoopid terminology like "string theory." Scientists are just terrible communicators.
     

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