India and Religious Tolerance

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~String

 

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You need to scale back on your use of the world "intolerance." Intolerance in this context is to make deny another religion equal rights and privileges. That does not happen in the US. Muslims and Jews and Christians and Buddhists and Hindus all have the same rights in this country.

What you do see here is prejudice. There is a difference, and it's an important one.

As for atheists, all we ever ask for is to not be tread upon by other faiths. That means keeping your prayers out of public schools and keeping your myths out of our textbooks. That is not intolerance, that's an appeal for equal rights.

 

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Wow. That's about one of the best, most succinct, posts I've read here at SciForums in a while.

~String

 

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some of these reasons are legitimate and some not. it's similar to how and why people of different races and cultures have hostility toward eachother.

first, people's religious views may be intolerant of others (fundamental religions). second, people's cultural traditions could conflict with others along foundational moral precepts. third, people shouldn't have to be forced to interact with or especially integrate with those who are different and this last aspect is the major cause of the hostility as well as intolerance or prejudice from being forced to or accept.

when people understand the difference or respect between important differences that detract from mutual respect or humanity vs insiginficant cultural aesthetics, then this problem will be solved. if your beliefs are that others are subhuman (don't have human rights) or equally people should not have the choice to interact, then we have the problems that has always plagued humanity.

for instance, forced integration of people based on racial quotas isn't helpful when people are not respectful of others. for instance, a mexican who blares their music at all hours of the night and their lawn is a parking lot/eyesore to the neighborhood is not going to get respect because they are not being respectful of others. also, wherever you are, you should learn the native language, though you can keep your native tongue as well. if your belief is that eating dog is okay (some asians) and you are in a culture that frowns on it, it's respectful to abide by those cultural mores or else you don't deserve to be there because it would be offensive to them otherwise. if your belief is that women should be killed for whatever offense dictated by your religion by one's own family and your host country doesn't, you better abdicate to the latter or else you will violate their own moral codes etc.

the point being not everything deserves tolerance but then not everything deserves intolerance either. the solution is actually very simple but it's not practiced by everyone because many people are simply assholes. when people operate from a sense of basic humanity, it all falls into place naturally. we all know what and when to respect and what not to and draw the line as well as fight against injustice. we know where the fences are instinctively and it's fluid just as when to be courteous and respect others space or when to interact. unfortunately, many people can't do this as they can only seem to tolerate just what they are and nothing else, meaning some are just intolerant out of differences that are not even violating them. it's just hate or egoism and it's black/white or all or nothing for them. so they end up violating, disprespecting or stepping on eachother's toes or being unnnecessarily intolerant and the end result is prejudice and hostility.

people should freely be able to choose who they want to live around, even if it's based on race just as people should be able to freely interact otherwise of their choosing. people choose their associates based on interests, education, intelligence level, philosophy, religion, personal style etc and they should be allowed to do so based on race as well as long as it's not intolerant of others or based on aggression or oppression against other races.

this applies to religion as well just like culture or race. since religion is primarily about moral values, any moral values that violates the rights of others that harms, oppresses, or exploits whether it's male, female or child does not deserve tolerance. those aspects that are have to be addressed in order for legitimate and sane tolerance to exist and the excuse can't be 'it's just my religion' therefore it's okay and should be tolerated. that's true if you are an island, otherwise it's not.

this is what gandhi understands and those like him which is also why the most intelligent people (which includes emotional intelligence, not just cold hard logic) tend to be able to interact with people of different races and cultures positively by respecting, sharing, learning or even celebrating what is interestingly different while correcting what detracts from a bond of common humanity. people who are dull (which can include those of even average to high iq) in understanding humanity or what it means to be human, tend to believe that a bond of common humanity means that everyone must be the same or literally equal. that's not the case and you'll often hear this line of reasoning from numbskull hard-line conservatives just as extreme libtards think everyone must be the same as well or is, the former acknowledge differences based on self-interest/prejudice and the latter don't appreciate or muddle all differences. they can't handle or don't want to handle the complexity of humans and that people can have wonderful qualities that are not fixedly valued. for instance, one may not be an intellectual genius but may be a very empathetic or compassionate. that is also an intelligence etc or one may have a great sense of humor etc and people's quirks and aesthetic qualities differ and is interesting too. people are more than worldly success (status) and iq (tool), they are multi-faceted creatures and 'humans' understand and appreciate those qualities.

i think this quote regarding war (grave of the fireflies) is something that anyone who is in touch with their humanity can understand. if we lose our humanity, ignore it or disrespect the humanity of those in other countries/cultures (despite bad people everywhere), then what are we living for?

 

First of all, one thing you must realise about India is that most Indians lack sophistication in this manner - they dont have well definded, thought out, complex, organised and rigid or diverse belief systems, at least not to the extent seen in a majority of the western and mediterrainian people, no disrespect to Indians. Due to this, the friction seen between well studied non-believers and religious people or scripturally well versed christains and muslims doesnt exist to any substantial degree in India. Another thing to keep in mind is that India is a predominantly Hindu society - and Hinduism makes assimiliation ridiculously easy - any God can be a incarnation of your God and even an atheist can be a Hindu if he follows the philosophy of the religion.

And on your "Why is it so difficult to simply accept that other people have a different faith and be able to go on with our lives instead of challenging and attempting to change their faith?"

We live in times where we can, if we choose, destroy most life on this planet overnight. We are truely capable of things only the gods of early pagans were capable of. And we live in a shrinking world. There is no looking back. We are now a global community and are becoming an increasingly interdependent one. We cannot live without each other, we cannot live without bumping into each other. However, we also live in times where simple ideological differences cost us planes and buildings.....and lives. We cant help running into people we dont agree with on the most basic beliefs in our lives. Our children would be even more helpless in this regard. What might happen in such situations, especially in an escalating environment of ideological antagonism coupled with increased power to do harm is indeed horrifying - there could be suicide bombings everyday in most major cities in the world, war be always be on between atleast some countries, 9/11s could happen each year - we might destroy ourselves....and we are more that capable of doing so.

In such a situation, ignorance of other people and their beliefs is suicidal. People need to know and understand what others believe and why they believe it. They need to know how to work with, converse with and productively debate with others. They need to be lifted above the veil of "my religion" and presented with the world as it is.

 

Seconded. But what do you mean "other" faiths? That is an applicable statement only to a non-agnostic strong atheist, which is a very precise and very tiny part of the non-believers - weak atheists, agnostics, apatheists, deists, non-theists, spinozists, pantheists, panentheists and non-deity religious people.