If theists were rational.

So anyway, why aren't more theists rational? Admit that you have no more solid evidence for the existence of a god than you do for santa claus and at least be intellectually honest with yourselves. You can still believe. Just don't take it to the absurd level of FACT.

And stop chopping off body parts.
 
superluminal said:
This is an old argument. Since humans DID develop religion, it's impossible to know how we migh have progressed if, say, we invented rationalism first.

And to S.A.M's post, I explained many moons ago that atheists, as a group and a philosophy, have NEVER had the chance.
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Thank the Lord; considering how the educated ones behave on this forum, the possibility of unrestrained power in their hands is a distinctly dangerous proposition.:shrug:
 
S.A.M. said:
Thank the Lord; considering how the educated ones behave on this forum, the possibility of unrestrained power in their hands is a distinctly dangerous proposition.:shrug:
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NO. Unrestrained power is what theists do. Atheists would, I'm sure, advocate a rational approach knowing the failings of humans in general. One with appropriate checks and balances.
 
superluminal said:
If theists were rational, then religion would be fine.
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if politicians were rational, politics would be fine, if teachers were rational, education would be fine, if scientists were rational, science would be fine etc etc - I think you're on to something here
:D
As it is, and knowing how the vast majority of people are, religion is like handing over the car keys to your six year old. Or giving him a box of kitchen matches on his birthday.
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therefore the solution lies in having religiosity properly established (at least to those who make the claim of being religious)
You tell people that they MUST follow this or that diety's guidelines (which are, of course, made up by some dudes) or they'll be in some sort of eternal trouble. And then when some yahoo comes along and takes a different approach to the rules, like female genital mutilation, we expect that people won't follow that dude's ideas? How foolish.
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the appropriate application of religious principles according to time place and circumstance is best asserted by persons able to distinguish between integral and peripheral religious principles - such a position is generally established, in practically whatever faith you care to mention, by persons who's character is self controlled (free from the lust, envy, etc) - its a particular favorite pastime of atheists and other persons critical or full of contempt for religion to present a peripheral religious principle as an integral one - actually the solution to irrational behavior in religion lies in clarifying practices and scripture (much like clarifying malpractices in medicine lies in a further analysis of medicine etc etc), rather than disregarding them (but hey, your an atheist and any excuse to knock religion down a peg or two scores brownie points eh?)
;)

This is just one example of how the mindset of superstition and doing without thinking (i.e. faith) is just about the worst idea humans ever had.
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doing without thinking is not rational, and it finds its way (as the binary opposite to "the right way") in all fields of practice - like for instance just consider the problems caused by agriculturalists using DDT because they believed it was the best thing to use - in other words if you want to talk of worst ideas, its easy to find others vying for supremacy.
 
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superluminal said:
This is an old argument. Since humans DID develop religion, it's impossible to know how we migh have progressed if, say, we invented rationalism first.
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"DID" eh?
I take it by the capital letters you have solid premises that lead to this and not merely tentative claims ......
(maybe you should have started a thread "If sciforums posters were rational")
:D
 
lightgigantic said:
"DID" eh?
I take it by the capital letters you have solid premises that lead to this and not merely tentative claims ......
(maybe you should have started a thread "If sciforums posters were rational")
:D
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Religion is full of temporal rules. By that I mean when reading the bible, you know that the lives of the prophets and religious leaders are what is more important and it's suddenly not about anything divine, but a prophets wish for girls not to wear 501's. Why would something that is not manmade glorify keeping slaves when thousands of years later such a thing would be described as barbaric? The writers were appeasing their own desires in their current age and saying it's what god wanted. Anyone can write on behalf of god just as I can write on behalf of humpty dumpty.

Religion IS (note my use of caps) manmade. The poison of man is found all through scriptures leaving 'qualified' theists to cherry pick and interpret.
 
superluminal said:
NO. Unrestrained power is what theists do. Atheists would, I'm sure, advocate a rational approach knowing the failings of humans in general. One with appropriate checks and balances.
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Like the atheists in this forum?:p
 
S.A.M. said:
Thank the Lord; considering how the educated ones behave on this forum, the possibility of unrestrained power in their hands is a distinctly dangerous proposition.:shrug:
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I'm sure every evolutionary leap had its naysayers. They were unfortunately, left behind. ;)
 
Baron Max said:
Well, think about it ...would humans have ever gotten this far without religion and faith? Wouldn't we still be hitting people over the head with clubs and stealing their food and women ....from the caves?! More than anything else, religion brought people together with a common interest and goal ...powerful tools in a world that was trying to kill you at every step.
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Uh, how do you figure that???

Had religion not been established, All of the labor, time, and materials that were spent building churches, synagoggues, pyramids, temples would have been saved for building something else, maybe more schools to improve the human race. Or maybe waterparks, so at least we would have fun. Think how many lives would be saved had the crusades, the flood (if it happened), and all the killings God did had not happened. Maybe one of those murdered would find the cure for cancer. Maybe one of the scientists killed by the church would have solved a great problem and advanced our society years ahead. Finally, think of all the time people spend today on religion. People who pray every day, go to church all the time, imagine if all of that time and effort was funneled into something productive that improves society.

Do you really think that soceity needs religion to have a common goal and be focused? that is sad
 
S.A.M. said:
Thank the Lord; considering how the educated ones behave on this forum, the possibility of unrestrained power in their hands is a distinctly dangerous proposition.:shrug:
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And so you should be concerned. The dismantling of religion would have a serious effect on your life, right?
 
www.godisimaginary.com

This site uses rationality and common sense to prove why god (at least how Christians view him) doesn't exist, yet I'm sure some Christians will come up with even more preposterous apologies than what the site already lists.


Religion is man made.

And for whoever said that we needed religion to create a cohesive society, yeah, look at how 'cohesive' the global society is. Good call there. :rolleyes:(go ahead, tell us that the world is like it is today because the Muslims, Hindus, won't accept Jesus as their savior...please). Religion is a crock of shit.
I still can't be past why ANYONE in their right mind would want to follow any deity (if they even exist) that would punish their greatest creation by sending them to an eternal damnation if they didn't accept them. That's not benevolence or mercifulness.

Even a child will only believe in Santa Claus for so long...until he/she realizes he doesn't exist and was only made to believe in SC as a young child so he would have something fun to believe in during Christmas.
 
It is hard to believe that a creator could put together a magnificent universe and despite the enormous complexity and knowledge required in achieving such a feat be overly concerned about the habits of a group of monkey people on what amounts to a speck in the vastness of space. That in itself is more unbelievable than the creator Himself. Maybe it wouldn't be so bad if there was nothing else but is this what it's all about? As I said, unbelievable!
 
(Q) said:
Or, it's beginning.
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If religion is what has been necessary for the world to reach this peak, atheism is what will lead to its extinction. Though its still a long way to go though, so I'm not worried.:p
 
S.A.M. said:
If religion is what has been necessary for the world to reach this peak, atheism is what will lead to its extinction. Though its still a long way to go though, so I'm not worried.:p
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Religion wasn't necessary at all. In fact, it has long halted what should have been a completely different approach, that of understanding reality, instead of obfuscating it with fantasy.

If a non-belief in gods will lead the world to extinction, then how did we ever survive before Christianity and Islam were invented? Why were the gods that were revered prior to that tossed aside in favor of new ones? Why aren't Christians and Muslims working hand in hand to defeat the evil atheists, who in your opinion, will lead the world to extinction?
 
And let's not forget one very important point, sam, you consider yourself a Muslim, hence you are not a Christian. Correct me if I'm mistaken on that one.
 
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