If religion isn't a motivator for violence...

Since you are the expert there is no arguing with you.

 

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I understand all that. But the motives they teach their children is to fight for religious reasons.
We all have reasons to fight but should we? We all have anger inside. Should we act on it? Innocent have been killed. Should we kill more on different lands? An eye for an eye? Do you believe that?

 

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They teach their children to fight for revenge, because they are frustrated and angry.

I have never had my children bombed so I am not in a position to judge someone who has but violence cannot bring peace; only fools believe that.

As for religion, all Muslims are religious to some extent, but I would presume that people without hope and with a lot of anger would use God as a crutch.

As for an eye for an eye, did you see Iraq or Afghanistan going en masse to wage war on the US in retaliation? Or a few sick, criminal men?

Do you see Muslims claiming that they are being persecuted by Christians and Jews? Or can they tell the difference between religion and politics without getting confused?

 

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I think that's really sad that they would teach they're children to fight for revenge. Justice, maybe. But revenge? = /

 

What do you call the US attack on Iraq after 9/11?

Is it justice? Or revenge? Or greed?

Did the American mothers and fathers hold back their sons from fighting the War Against Terror?

Are the Israeli parents holding back their children from blowing up civilians?

Its an ugly world.

 

No, they didn't. I think the Attack on Iraq was a real shame. It was not justice. I don't really know what the heck it was about. Many Americans seem to believe that it had something to do with 9/11.

 

I have no idea either.

But I know Saddam had warned the US about 9/11 so it makes no sense to me.

 

WHAT? Oh whoa, that is weird.

I don't get why we felt we had to invade Iraq. I'm not Saddams biggest fan since he was killing his people. But I wonder if they're in any better place then before.

 

I really don't know what the actual reason is, but just before the war, Saddam had declared his intention to price his oil in Euros.

http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~pdscott/iraq.html

 

I hope you are'nt refering to me in that.
islam is an evil regime, and I was born into it.

 

Muslims are not immune from propaganda either nor are they all equally educated in their religion.

 

sammy: i've been reading a lot of this thread, and you are one arrogant little shit, most of the members of sciforums, have studied for years, you dont become enlightened by just sitting on your arse.
you seem to think your intelligent, your statement "Muslims are not immune from propaganda either, nor are they all equally educated in their religion." is about you, is it not.

 

Of course I'm an arrogant little shit, what's wrong with that? And where do you get off calling me sammy, you prick?

And I'm not talking about the members of sciforums, I'm talking about the Muslims I have met who expound their views on Islam to me and when I question them, I realise they got it from someone else or from the media or the internet and have never actually bothered to look it up.

People are too lazy these days, they prefer to look at points of view that match their own, nod their heads and feel justified that they have reached a "reasonable" conclusion. Ignorance is not a point of view.

I prefer to examine both sides of an argument before making up mind.

That's what makes me a self righteous prig.

 

If it is abuse we are talking about, your post mis-t is an excellent example! By calling samcd "one arrogant little shit" you take the argument onto another level, where both sides just trade insults. From there it is a short step to violence.

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Samcd's response is remarkably restrained.

It is not religion that causes violence - it is people getting angry. The content (religion) is not the process (escalation). The content could be many things, but the cure lies in the process i.e. stopping the escalation.

 

DD don't ruin a good cat fight!

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Sad part is we don't get to watch it

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LOL..

 

I have the mud pit arranged... Anyone else want to sort out the bikini's?

 

If we pretend the conflict only started yesterday, or last week, or last year, that might be relevant.

Doesn't the Quran condone violence as a means to bring about peace? Is that not foolish?

And then they use god as their reason to vent their anger. We would easily hand that person a crutch (of religion) rather than dealing with the anger.

That would depend on whether the masses supported the criminals, or worse, did nothing if opposed.

The religion has always been and will always be a major player in those politics, something you seem reluctant to accept.

 

Name one part of the world which has ever been free from conflict.

http://www.twf.org/Library/Violence.html
You tell me.

Did they? So it is only when they are killing people that they invoke God?
Not when they are happy and celebrating?
Not when they are confused and persecuted?
Not when they are talking in general?

Perhaps invoking God is part of their language and not a motive for every action?

You mean when the media calls them as Islamic terrorists and quotes their scriptures as a source of violence?

Is that when they are supposed to show their support to the same countries that are supplying the arms which are being used to kill their families?

No but its a very good excuse when people don't want to face the actual reasons behind the violence. I mean, better that everyone believes they are blowing themselves up for God. We sure would not want to hear about the 20 years of occupation and murder or in the case of Iraq, have anyone look too closely at the oil contracts and general poppycock fed to the media, would we?

No just call them ALL terrorists, regardless of their origin or motive, put them in a separate category (very convenient as they belong to the same religion) and feed so much bullshit to the media that after some time no one even questions how it started.

And after all the information available today, if you still persist in believing that religion is a motivation for these "terrorists", then I can only conclude that you are too brainwashed by propaganda to know any better.

 

you'll probably need a gargantuan bikini,(big girl) for samcd, or at least a bra with an extra cup to hold her swollen head.

the core value of most/the major religions is hated, you've only to study their holy books, a book of love as the all seem to call theirs, should not contain words like enemy, evil, etc etc. a god of love would not have evil, a god of love would not kill, all children learn by example, hence why the religious are so violent.

"evil people do evil things, good people do good things, for good people to do evil things takes religion" richard dawkins

 

LOL - sorry Godless, I scared off mis-t!

Wait... I think mustafha has just stepped into the mud-pit, and is throwing mud around!

Or is it shit...? yes, I think it's shit! :bugeye: