If ET is quietly visiting Earth, what would the social indicators for this be?

Discussion in 'Science & Society' started by ted_roe, Sep 27, 2002.

  1. ted_roe Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    32
    Given that there is a debate that is ongoing regarding whether or not ET is visiting Earth, what would the social and scientific indicators be if extraterrestrials had been visiting for a thousand or more years while leaving precious little physical evidence?What would we expect to see if we reviewed history for clues to this possibility?
    I am not looking for a debate here, just some ideas about how this would appear to our own race at this point in time.....
    Thanks
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. wet1 Wanderer Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,616
    A belated welcome to sciforums, ted_roe.

    One of the ideas that I have always harbored is that IF there were such a thing as a UFO recovered at Roswell and that we had disassembled it to learn how it worked, that suddenly we would have technology that no one could satisfactorily explained how we learned it. Maybe the public wouldn't know about it but the military would suddenly be able to preform feats that it never could before. Maybe it would be able to penetrate all enemy security, track individuals that it should not be able to by known means, or mysteriously be able to influance the course of some major decision to their benefit. Or be able to build something out of materials that no one else knows how to make.

    So far all technology we know has a previous background where you can see it was derived from. No mysterious gaps and jumps not connected to what was known before. Any such aquired knowledge would eventually come into the public sector. Someone would have to use this new knowledge, say as a weapon or intelligence device. In using this, it would become knowledge that he was aware of and sooner or later that person would become a civilian. When becoming a civilian, one does not forget what they learned. Rather it comes with them as memories. So sooner or later it gets dispersed as public knowledge. Inspite of what conspiracy advocates believe, it is hard to keep secrets and their sources secret for long.

    This is why I don't see conspiracies at every corner.

    Another point is that there is almost no place on the face of the earth that there isn't someone at. Someone to see what is going on at that location. For an alien to come in and not be seen is almost an impossibility. For the most part, they would be seen by lots of people. It is hard to pick a spot that is not under the vision of people or satellites on this earth. Especially when you consider that they have to come down from above where there is no cover to hide behind. In despiration, those who would want such to be true have tried everything from they can make themselves invisiable to they have a teleporter to put them here. That is not logical, as any alien would have to operate within the same physical laws as we do. While we have not come to the end of all learning of everything within the universe, we have learned enough that almost every force or occurance leaves something we can detect. Therefore there would be some clues. To date there is nothing to suggest that we have been visited other than wishful believers.

    We could be the most advanced race in the galaxy (assuming that other life exists). That we have not shook hands with some alien or had them ask us to take them to our leaders is a good indication that there isn't anyone but us. There is no evidence to the contrary that we can touch, feel, or hold on to. If we are the hicks of the universe then what alien would be interested other than to assure we didn't infect the rest with some form of incest?
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. ted_roe Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    32
    Hi Wet1

    So, some of the indicators we would look for would be:

    1. Sudden leaps in technology, which would be used to overturn the status quo and tip the balance of power.

    2. Public commentary by former individuals involved with classified work relating to ET research.

    3. Reports of observations of ET craft coming to and leaving the planet, and supporting instrument (radar) data and qualified testimony (pilots, air controllers, military officers, scientists, etc.).

    Thats' very interesting Wet1. Are there any other clues that come to mind?
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. grazzhoppa yawwn Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,277
    The start of the World's Fair again. MIB

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    I would say mostly accounts in religion. As, "the heavens parted and a light shined through." Especially in pre-christianity history. Paintings, hieroglyphics. Of course it all probably could be explained as some phenomenon that they couldn't explain back then...yet they probably wouldn't have people trying to create hoaxes either.
     
  8. wet1 Wanderer Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,616
    I believe that ted_roe has a purpose for this subject. That when a few answers are made that he will reveal what that purpose is...
     
  9. grazzhoppa yawwn Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,277
    sneaky....tell us! The suspense is too much!
     
  10. ted_roe Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    32
    So, some of the indicators we would look for would be:

    1. Sudden leaps in technology, which would be used to overturn the status quo and tip the balance of power.

    2. Public commentary by former individuals involved with classified work relating to ET research.

    3. Reports of observations of ET craft coming to and leaving the planet, and supporting instrument (radar) data and qualified testimony (pilots, air controllers, military officers, scientists, etc.).

    4. Religious and mythological commentary reflecting airborne lights and objects....perhaps the placing of "God" and other entities in the heavens instead of in the middle of the Earth.

    hmmm....

    What else can we add to this list of hypothetical indicators? Of course the assumption is that these ET are cautious but regular visitors.....
     
  11. John MacNeil Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    345
    Probably the main indicator would be a coalescing of a certain group of influential people into a de facto government extant of the elected government. The primary objective of such a group would be to defend their assets against a hostile or virtual takeover. If such an incursion was being implemented covertly by secretive alien invaders, there would be no real defense against such a program. At first, the shadow government would not realize this and they would enlarge their military might far beyond all relativistic needs as it pertains to planetary originated threats. Then, as the reality of the alien encounter would be found to be impervious to planetary military technology, the shadow government would arrange for the elected government to steer officialdom and the governed society towards a more open agenda in order to realize a real peace in the world, in the hopes that the space visitors would one day make official contact if they, the local planetary government and it's society, proved themselves worthy of it.
     
  12. Nasor Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,221
    Without more information this question is meaningless and any attempt to answer it is merely wild speculation. How many aliens? What are their intentions? How advanced are they? How often do they visit? What sort of activities do they carry out while on earth? Do they try to hide their presence or do they make contact with select individuals?

    The “social and scientific indicators” would be very different if the aliens were planning an invasion vs. attempting to quietly study us vs. interested in opening trade relations vs. trying to secretly shape our culture.
     
  13. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    19,125
    ted

    extraterrestrials had been visiting for a thousand or more years while leaving precious little physical evidence?

    Actually, there is no evidence whatsoever.

    What would we expect to see if we reviewed history for clues to this possibility?

    Evidence.



    Nasor

    Well said.
     
  14. ted_roe Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    32
    Nasor

    I agree. I feel that the question is ambigous also. Let me try to clarify. I don't know about "wild speculation", I am just asking for the fun of it....there is no exam on this so lighten up!

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    If ET were quietly visiting Earth over the last thousand years or more...... I wouldn't guess at a motive but I think I would disqualify the idea of an invasion. I think the indicators there would be fairly easy to divine.

    Lets just say, hypothetically, that they are coming here regularly, perhaps maintaining a small base or observation station either on the Earth or nearby (the moon, an asteroid....) and conducting a variety of observations, perhaps acquiring materials, and not leaving a lot of physical evidence. Lets say that these observations are broad in scope and cover the majority of the sciences as we understand them....biology, weather, geology, etc....

    Lets also say, hypothetically, that they have studiously avoided any contact with governments or public institutions and that they have been coming here for ten thousand years.

    What would we expect to see within our culture that would reflect this kind of incursion?

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  15. ted_roe Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    32
    Q

    More abuse?
     
  16. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    19,125
  17. ted_roe Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    32
    Q

    or someone who has put up with your name calling and abusive commetary before....
     
  18. John MacNeil Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    345
    To try and analyze alien intentions from our primitive, isolationist perspective is the waste of time. An invasion by aliens would not have to be a visible coup. Trading with us for what? If we were to find cavemen somewhere on Earth, would we seek to trade our technology to them for shards of flint? Interacting with our immoral government would be repulsive to them, since they wouldn't deal with anyone they couldn't trust, and you certainly can't trust people who would mass murder their own planetary citizens, for profit.

    If you are going to engage in a mental exercise about the intentions of an advanced civilization, you would have to adopt a perspective based on logic and trust.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2002
  19. Mr. G reality.sys Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,109
    How about if extra-terrestrials have never been to Earth, but if they could get here they could not avoid leaving physical evidence? We'd be starting this conversation at the very same point: a complete lack of evidence, unambiguous or otherwise, of aliens.
    Exactly what we have already: UFO conferees wildly speculating about hypotheticals. We'd also have people doing statistical reductions of anecdotal pollings/surveys as if that could ever be proof of aliens in fact--indistinguishable from motion being easily confused with action--while we all await the really hard evidence: a real alien or real alien artifact to appear.
     
  20. Nasor Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,221
    How could we know who aliens would or would not interact with? Maybe they have no concept of morality, or maybe their morals are so radically different from ours that we could never relate to them. Perhaps they would consider individual life to be of trivial importance, or maybe they would find the most minor acts of violence to be hideously repulsive – or maybe both.

    Consider the mindset of a medieval European Inquisitor as compared to a feudal Japanese samurai, a modern corporate executive or a 1960’s hippy. Each has such a radically different outlook that one could probably never relate to another, and they’re all the same species. I think it’s pretty useless to make guesses about how aliens might think or act. The only safe assumption would be that they are able to work together well enough to build and operate a space ship – other than that, all bets are off.
     
  21. Thor "Pfft, Rebel scum!" Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,326
    Wow, great thread, can't believe I missed it

    Going waaaaaay back to Wet1's answer. I'm not saying they have got this technology, its just an idea that popped into my head.
    If the US government has gathered knowledge and new technologies from a downed UFO, they might not see any need to use such technology yet. They could wait till, say 2050+ to unviel a brand new fighter craft based on alien technology when such a design would be accepted and hardly anyone would be skeptical that they devised it themselves.

    Not arguing with you here, but Antartica hasn't got many people there. But, anything that did go there would probably have been picked up on radar.

    Maybe all possible evidence that aliens may have visited us could be lying under all that ice in Antartica. Who knows. I sure as hell don't.


    Agreed, all we have are ideas. Maybe the Pyramids were made by aliens, maybe crop circles are made by flying saucers. We have no proof to say that they were
     
  22. John MacNeil Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    345
    When a science advances, so does social awareness. Less than forty year ago, racial bigotry was openly expressed and accepted by large segments of society. Now that attitude, while not completely eradicated, is not tolerated openly and will get people dismissed from their position if they are caught displaying such intolerance. For a science to advance so far that it enables them to travel to other solar systems, then their morals must also have advanced apace. This is an obvious synchronicity from which we can deduce that a science based society would not come here with the intent to destroy us. If destroying us was their wish, they would have the technology to do so without ever putting themselves in danger.

    When you look at what we have of value that could be of commensurate value to an alien science, the only commodity would be the planet. The planet would have great value, while we as a society would have no value if we couldn't be trusted.

    To say that people are watching all parts of the Earth is not quite accurate either, since I've often been in regions where I've encountered no one for weeks at a time. And at night most of the watching eyes would be aleep.

    It is entirely possible that evidence of alien visitation is in the hands of the government, but they, due to their dishonest and secretive nature, are keeping that knowledge confined to their "gang". Take this website, for example;

    www.ufos-aliens.co.uk/morphingmetals.html

    At first you might think that is an ordinary, run-of-the-mill UFO website, but it contains this quote from Anna McGowan of NASA,

    --"Imagine seeing a bullet shot through a sheet of material, only to have the material instantly "heal" behind the bullet! Remember, this is not science fiction. Self healing materials actually exist, and LaRC scientists are working to unravel their secrets. What we did at NASA-Langley was basically dissect that material to answer the question, 'how does it do that?'"--A.M. NASA

    The above referenced site is recommended to undergraduate physics students by their physics professor at Princeton University. This is proof that the government does have recovered material from a crashed spaceship and that they back engineer it. If the material Anna McGowan is talking about came from our planet, they would already know how it was constructed.

    The fact that the government would allow Ms. McGowan to make such a statement could be construed as evidence that they are moving past the 'armed defence stage' and appoaching the 'improve the society stage', so that they might someday be viewed as worth visiting.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2002
  23. Thor "Pfft, Rebel scum!" Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,326
    I've noticed some people have said that aliens would see no value in our society and technology and would not wish to trade with 'barbarians'.

    What if (I SAID IF) iron was only found in large quanities on this planet an was extremely valuable to the visitors. With the morals John MacNeil has pointed out, they wouldn't want to take it by force, so trading could be an option. But I doubt they'd trade us weaponry, in fact, I know they wouldn't. They could probably give us plans for a Nuclear Fussion reactor or a map of the worlds they've visited. Something that a race of people can use wisely and help them propers. But thats just my imagination running wild. But I think I've put down some good idea
     

Share This Page