i love christianity...

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

Waaaaa! Jan is calling me names!

*Sobs*

Now my eyeliner is running.

He'll be pleased to hear that.

You forgot to mention Linux worship.

Sushi!,

Xev, in a decidedly smart-ass mood

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

I'm a (web)designer , Jan

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

how did you know?

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

TruthSeeker wrote

Can you elaborate on what signals of self awareness you are talking about? Your comments seem like a form of double-speak. On one hand you're saying that you don't think Avatar and Xev are self aware, than on the other hand you're saying they are but just not as aware as you or Banshee because they're not 'spiritual'.

Let's look at some definitions of the term 'self-awareness'

as an adjective:

"Aware of oneself, including one's traits, feelings, and behaviors."

(American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language)

as a noun:

"awareness of your own individuality."

(Worldnet, Princeton University)


These definitions are very logical and have nothing to do with religious beliefs or doctrines. Most atheists I know are extremely self-aware because they have chosen to examine who they are and what they think about the universe and life for themselves, rather than be told what to think by others (like religious leaders, authorities in some hierarchy, gods, angels or holy-books). Of course, there are exceptions within both the religious perspective as well as the atheist perspective, but it has been my experience that religion tends to feed you doctrine and atheism tends to promote individual understanding (i.e. self-awareness).

 

noktvs:

Basically, Nelson believes that one is self-aware if they have 'love in thier hearts'. Not love in the normal sense, but some conception of a omnipresent, cosmic 'Unconditional Love', which he has yet to show evidence for the existance of.

*Sigh*

Unfortunatly, asking for evidence leads to Nelson attacking his 'opponents' as 'closed-minded', 'compulsive-obsessive rationalists' and 'frightened children'.

I wish he would realize that we simply want him to show evidence for his conclusions...unfortunatly, Nelson will have to grow up and control his ego before that can happen.

P.S: Banshee posts folk's autopsy photos....if being self aware is being that callous, I want no part of it!

Sushi!,
Xev

 

Sorry!
I don't getchya.

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

Love

Jan Ardena.

 

Was it not you, who said tht Jan?

 

What's your point?

Love

Jan Ardena.

 

supernova_smash,

For many years I believed that the Bible is almost completly metaphors and allegories (instead Jesus, there IS evidence of His existance...). I believed that Genesis, Exodus and so on were purely ways to explain it. Today, I don't know. I still believe it's not History, but I opened the possibility for those things to be right. For now, they are only allegories about the human psyche...


Xev,

We are ALL self-aware. But spiritualized people have hightly increased self-awareness.


Jan,

Good point!

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

Well... I guess that's why it's so hard to awake those people, skeptics, because they are far away from themselves...

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

noktvs,

As I said to Xev, spiritualized people have increased self-awareness. For iunstance, everyone is self-aware since their childhood. Self-awareness is started being developed by the baby in a very young age. It increases but has a limit. You are in the limit. You seem not more self-aware then a child. That's natural. You look to a mirror, you see yourself, you know that it's yourself in the mirror.

Anyways... what the spiritualized person experience is an increased self-awareness caused by a subjection of the ego in relation to one's Highter Self. That's what causes the increased self-awareness of spiritualized people. I see clearly that many people here don't have this contact with their Highter Selves, and instead, I see their egos speaking.

The greaters sings of self-awareness are:

• Decreased rational thinking
• Increased intuition
• Increased perception of Love
• Increased valorization of Nature

Xev,

The EVIDENCE can only be gained by increased self-awareness... :bugeye: :bugeye:


Love,
Nelson

 

Of course.

What?! I've tried to be nice, Nelson, haven't I?

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

Whatever.

You think you know the secrets of the universe, at eighteen, and you can tell people how they ought to debate, and you complain about OTHER people's egos?!

Even the complaint is evidence of egotism! As if you, knowing none of us, can say who has contact with thier 'higher self' - whose existance you have yet to demonstrate!

Begs the question

 

Xev,

It can be said by your attitudes and beliefs...

Love,
Nelson

 

Oh NO, Nelson is starting to write in colorful big letters. Loone must be getting to him. My people, we must save him before it is too late.

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

 

Spiritualized people have increased self-awareness.

I would argue that "spiritualized people" have decreased self-awareness. They tend to attribute everything to invisible external powers and forces. "Non-spiritual" people must find the answers for their emotions, beliefs, drives, and thoughts within themselves. They can't blame the devil for the nasty thoughts or actions they might commit, they can't deny responsibility for their actions and consider themselves absolved via a "higher-power". They have to deal with the tough issues within rather than leaving explanation to God.

I see clearly that many people here don't have this contact with their Highter Selves, and instead, I see their egos speaking.

"I see clearly" Hmmm… rather a lot of ego showing in that statement.

The greaters sings of self-awareness are:

• Decreased rational thinking
• Increased intuition
• Increased perception of Love
• Increased valorization of Nature

I'm sorry, but this is absurd. A sign of self-awareness is decreased rational thinking? So lunatics are the most self-aware people? One should wish for a dissociative disorder? Oh, wait. That would be deductive logic and therefore rational thought…

Query: How can one use the irrational to rationalize the irrational?

Oh my… I think I just hurt myself.

~Raithere

 

.nothing. forget it.

And those beliefs and attitudes are appled to your standarts, right? ...where were those.....
1>Decreased rational thinking
2>Increased intuition
3>Increased perception of Love
4>Increased valorization of Nature
.......
1> I think tht rational thinking is the main thing for self-awarness.......if I won't be rational about my mind, hell knows what will I start to think about it......rational thinking leads to self awarness (mind tht it is not equal scepticism)
2>could agree
3>it is questionable and I see tht this point is affected by your uncnditional love phylosophy.... you can not put this as an evidence to self awarness because it is an assumption. give us evidence how unconditional love affects self-awarness.
4> maybe... but mind I simply passionate nature, I love it, I am one with it---> and you call me not self-aware.....

I am not cmpletely self aware, I admit it, but not because of your unconditional love theories or whatever you might think....I have my own standarts and I during time I'll possibly come to nwe ones. I have had simply not enough time to explore myself and I doubt you did.......calling oneself completely self-aware @ the age of 18 is not wise.....give it a little more time.

Cheers and Good Luck

 

Interesting

Accept all as real. That's the best answer I can possibly give.

For instance, if a friend has (or hasn't) taken something and happens to be seeing nine-headed cactus demons, it's usually best to not attempt to forcefully insert reality--e.g. that the demon isn't there--but to work with the situation as if it was real.

After a while it becomes habitual. You stop telling people to leave you alone because "they have no right" and start dealing with whatever it brings.

Being that many atheists speak of rationality and irrationality as a base comparison against other philosophies, it's worth wondering what identification and persecution of the irrational gets in human terms. When it gets down to individuals, it's simply a matter of where one chooses to stop dealing compassionately with people.

At the end of the day, identity labels are something twixt you and yourself, so it seems the only thing at stake when putting aside the more observable aspects of life is a few minutes of understanding and the psychology of control.

All theories of life, the Universe, and everything (or specific lacks thereof) are only comparative in their final value. That is, at the end of life, what will one say of another? He never understood people at all, and rejected their idiosyncracies. As a result died alone, but at least he had his principles. When human behavior is defined rationally, perhaps I'll think differently about such things. In the meantime, though, the only way to achieve rational results from irrational factors and devices is to accept the results as rational end results.

Sometimes it's necessary and sometimes it can be left to one's discretion. But whether or not one wants to accept the real condition that human beings exist, the life of the purely rational--much like the purely religious--is best kept by a hermit.

Here, Star Trek fans anywhere? Try this TNG idea: Prove to Commander Data that he exists in such a manner as to not require irrationaility in the results. Think of it this way: explain the value of human life as compared to any other product of the Universe without sinking into irrationality.

Most Americans probably remember how much they hated their "be" verbs.

I can't imagine why.

"I am," as a factual conclusion, is the most irrational idea to ever occur to us. As a result, most people are still unsure as to whether or not they even exist. Insofar as I can tell, the Judeo-Christian influence has resulted in a large forfeiture of the concept of existence (and rationality) in order to find comfort in the vagary.

thanx,
Tiassa

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

 

Re: Interesting

Originally posted by tiassa
Accept all as real. That's the best answer I can possibly give.

Accept all as real? Just as well to accept nothing as real. Which then falls into Transcendentalism or Descartian philosophy. Everything and nothing propositions are meaningless. Without a ruler there is no measure.

For instance, if a friend has (or hasn't) taken something and happens to be seeing nine-headed cactus demons, it's usually best to not attempt to forcefully insert reality--e.g. that the demon isn't there--but to work with the situation as if it was real.

And if the friend doesn't stop seeing the cactus demons? If he picks up a rifle and runs down the street blazing away at nothing real but killing others in the process? Should we maybe think about inserting a little reality at that point? Or should you pick up another rifle and join him. After all, we're accepting his delusion as real.

Being that many atheists speak of rationality and irrationality as a base comparison against other philosophies, it's worth wondering what identification and persecution of the irrational gets in human terms. When it gets down to individuals, it's simply a matter of where one chooses to stop dealing compassionately with people.

Persecution seems a bit strong a word. I'd call it debate and argument. And I don't think that you're seeing Atheists attacking irrationality. What you see is Atheists attacking irrational argument used as proof. This is usually a simple matter of circular logic.

My post, to which you replied, was in response to Jan and Nelson's arguments regarding self-awareness. Nelson attributes self-aware people with decreased rationality. Which makes no sense. The more I am aware about myself, my thoughts, my emotions the more rational I become. That is not to say that all my thoughts and emotions are rational, they're not. But the determinations I make relating to them are (or at least I try to make them so I can't say I'm 100% successful).

This is akin to a child becoming an adult. A child has something taken away and feels loss and rage, the child acts out in aggression and smacks the offender. An adult, with an increased self-awareness and other-awareness, has more control over the process. The adult still feels the emotions, but they are more highly aware of the process.

At the end of the day, identity labels are something twixt you and yourself, so it seems the only thing at stake when putting aside the more observable aspects of life is a few minutes of understanding and the psychology of control.

Labels do not define reality. Reality is the measure of the label.

All theories of life, the Universe, and everything (or specific lacks thereof) are only comparative in their final value.

Hardly. There are many ways of determining their relative value... of course, first you have to determine what value you wish to measure...

In the meantime, though, the only way to achieve rational results from irrational factors and devices is to accept the results as rational end results.

I'm not even sure I understand this point. What are you saying here? What irrational factors and results are you speaking of?

Here, Star Trek fans anywhere? Try this TNG idea: Prove to Commander Data that he exists in such a manner as to not require irrationaility in the results. Think of it this way: explain the value of human life as compared to any other product of the Universe without sinking into irrationality.

Data's dilemma is a human invention derived from human ego. The only value human life has over, let's say, an orange is that a human life can purposefully affect the universe. Of course, this is a subjective value judgment. It's based upon my being human. If I we're the orange I would probably think oranges were better than humans… at least you don't see an orange squishing up humans and drinking their juice. Better to just hang there on the tree and do nothing but be orange.

"I am," as a factual conclusion, is the most irrational idea to ever occur to us.

How so? If you ask "Am I?" who is asking?

~Raithere

 

What if you can not communicate with your enemy? Can you show love to them? Do you consider the disease spreading tiger mosquitos friends or enemies? Is your love going to make them stop spreading disease to you while sucking your blood?

You must know that there are many living things in this world whose sole-purpose is to kill you whenever possible. You can avoid them, kill them, but never love them.

If you show love to everything, you are ignorant.

 

Raithere,

It's exactly the opposite. Spiritualized people get the answers within. Rationalized people get from lies from the media and outside circumstances, that you call EVIDENCE. You yourselves said this...

Anyone that has a minimum basis on Psychology can see this really clearly...

Lunatics actually think a lot... If "lunatics" wouldn't think, they wouldn't be "lunatics" as this is a "disease" cause by excess of thinking...


Avatar,

First mistake. And very common...
Rational thinking creates confusion. This is actually clearly stated in ALL ancient Philosophies and Religions of the world. taoism, for example, states that rational thinking creates confusion as it is based on the pluralism of the Dualist World.

They, and many others, also stated that self-awarenes is attained by inner processes of purification of mind and inner silence.

Sorry, other way around. Self-awareness affects Love. That's because your perception of reality and of yourself is broaded and you begin to see beauty in the world. You see how the world really is and how you really is. Self-awareness also widely open your Heart, influencing as I said before, intuition.

I'm pretty sure I said somewhere that I'm not totally self-aware... if I didn't, I do it now. I'm going there... total self-awareness is THE Truth. I'm TruthSeeker. Perhaps I'm a Truth Speaker as a friend said... but if it's so, the Truth speaks through me, without passing through my conscient...


daktaklakpak,

Truly, you totally ignore the fact that animals kills to survive, not to get a trophy like human beings...

Love,
Nelson

 

"It's exactly the opposite. Spiritualized people get the answers within. Rationalized people get from lies from the media and outside circumstances, that you call EVIDENCE. You yourselves said this..."

Yes! Now you get it! 'Spiritualized' people think they have all the answers. A true rationalist realizes he does not know everything.


"Anyone that has a minimum basis on Psychology can see this really clearly.."

That's about the kind of base I've seen you have....


"Lunatics actually think a lot... If "lunatics" wouldn't think, they wouldn't be "lunatics" as this is a "disease" cause by excess of thinking..."

All insanity is caused by too much thinking? Ouch, maybe you have less psychology than I even sarcastically implied in my last comment.


"Rational thinking creates confusion. This is actually clearly stated in ALL ancient Philosophies and Religions of the world. taoism, for example, states that rational thinking creates confusion as it is based on the pluralism of the Dualist World"

All philosophies? Neitzsche said that we should be spiritual? What? Where? Hume? Stalin? Lenin? Where?

What is self awareness nelson? Your 'inner child'? Your true self? This can be found through rational thinking. You can very logically figure out who you are as a person.


"Rationalized people get from lies from the media and outside circumstances, that you call EVIDENCE. You yourselves said this..."

Um.....no. Evidence is a supporting fact to a theory. Prove to me gravity without evidence and I'll become a Christian. You have to understand that every ounce of science is based on evidence, right? And how are you so sure that the media is my basis for everything? And is everything the media says a lie? Did you know religion has forever been a large part of the media?


"I'm pretty sure I said somewhere that I'm not totally self-aware... if I didn't, I do it now. I'm going there... total self-awareness is THE Truth. I'm TruthSeeker. Perhaps I'm a Truth Speaker as a friend said... but if it's so, the Truth speaks through me, without passing through my conscient..."

You have said it. But you haven't shown anything to prove it. So far I have only seen you realize that god cannot be proved through logic or science. That is a big step, but nothing else has shown. You have yet to admitt you've been wrong.

 

Tyler,

Taoist Philosophy: realizes that you don't know everything and seeking answers within oneself, ignoring circumstances.

A true rationalist says: I know everything. I know Quantum Physics. I know Astrophysics. I know...

I know that rationalists do that because I were one. I found out that I was really ignorant, turned to myself to answer the questions, and got some of them. Still seeking some. Not rationally (sometimes...) but mostly... internally...

Have you ever read any Psychology? By your statement I clearly see that you never did...

I said all ancient Philosophies, Religions and Mythologies...
Modern Psychology talks about it too...

You can't put an ocean inside a bottle...

LARGE!?!?!? I've NEVER seen ANY Religion on TV!!! :bugeye:

Why don't YOU try to explain Him RATIONALLY? I would sit down and relax seeing you going crazy...

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

As I said... rational thinking can cause insanity (in excess, of course)
Too much thinking destroy one's inner peace and creates anxienty...

Trying to explain God rationally is suicide. Even Alchemists said that...

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

I'm giving you and people a book to read pretty soon...

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

Love,
Nelson