I am new to bitcoin and need some advice.

Discussion in 'Intelligence & Machines' started by aaqucnaona, Sep 28, 2013.

  1. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    LOL, unfortunately Billy T this is just another post in which you engage in your usual host of illogical and counter factual statements. All the ad hominem in the world is no cover for the blatant flaws in not only your facts but your reason. In this thread alone there are links showing the actions China and others have taken to restrict and limit Bitcoin trading due to the risks it poses to the financial system. Yet you persist with your denial of fact and persistent use gobbledygook. It's reminiscent of your economic prognostications in which you and only you, a man with no formal economic or business training or experience, are predicting a run on the dollar in a few months. You have had your head into too much conspiracy nonsense.
     
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  3. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    more of your unsupported false assertions.

    Show, after quoting me*, my logical flaw. Then quote my "counter factual statement" and refute it by a reputable source stating the opposite.
    You are demonstrated liar,** and fabricator of "facts" so your merely asserting I'm illogical or contra factual is worthless noise.

    * in full context - don't omit essential parts my statement to change the meaning as you did more than once in your post 79, forcing me in my post 80 to repost my words in full with the critical parts you dropped in red text.

    ** for example relatedly claimed to be quoting Bloomberg yet even after 16 requests for the link, give none. (I'll give more examples of your lying if you request.)
     
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  5. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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  7. Syzygys As a mother, I am telling you Valued Senior Member

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    Actually, pot getting the green light in several US sates (CO sold out their supply in a few days since Jan 1st) it is fundamentally sound to invest in potgrowing companies...
     
  8. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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    No company is worth 20 times what it was two weeks ago.
    That's a Bubble.
    They won't have the growth to themselves.
    Companies better geared to expand may take all their business.
     
  9. Syzygys As a mother, I am telling you Valued Senior Member

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    What do you think Jack Daniels stocks were traded at during the Prohibition and right after it? Sure a stock can jump huge when the government just OKs the product they sell....
     
  10. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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    I don't know.
    Have you got a graph showing the stock?

    I agree that a viable stock may be worth double or treble because of favourable news,
    for example a small drug company with a successful drug trial.
    A bigger increase could be justifiable if an event pulled the company into decent profits from a position of bankruptcy.
    So I withdraw my statement "No company is worth 20 times what it was two weeks ago."
    On thinking further about it, that is possible.

    In this case it is happening to pot-related companies across the board, and is unsustainable.


    Greenngro are now down to 38 cents. 52% down today.
    Money follows money.
     
  11. C C Consular Corps - "the backbone of diplomacy" Valued Senior Member

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    Related / breaking news: Malware on Yahoo ads turned user PCs into bitcoin miners

    [...] With the Yahoo incident, a hacker group developed malware that infected user computers when their owner clicked on a certain ad, causing their computer to become part of a botnet (each doing a little bit of number crunching.) That botnet worked as a single entity (miner) to generate massive numbers of bitcoins, which all went to the originator of the malware.
    [...]
    Bitcoin is a peer-to-peer payment system—created as a means to allow for commerce on the Internet without the assistance of a governmentally backed monetary system. [...] In order for the system to grow, more bitcoins must be generated on a regular basis. But they're not printed by a central agency, bitcoins are instead created by "miners" which are computers running software designed to solve math problems—they get a certain number of bitcoins in exchange for their efforts. [...] In the beginning, a person using their own computer could use the software to create bitcoins, nowadays, it takes powerful dedicated computers or in this new effort, a botnet—which is where PCs were pooled together to solve the math problems.
     
  12. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    Which will be in demand, even exist, in 10 years? The "old timer" or the "new guy"
     
  13. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    No one bet against my $1248/oz (Lacked the guts or just smart?). The peak very briefly on Friday was $1249.20 but even the graph below show it was above my $1248/ oz.
    For the green curve to record the actual peaks or lows, they must hold for five or so minutes. Kitco price at CoB of NYC market on Friday 10 dec 13 was:
    high/low: Bid/Ask 1246.60/1247.60 ... Low/High 1227.00 / 1249.20 Also between 7:30PM qnd 8PM price was $1248.60/ oz (see graph below):

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    I'll go out on another limb, even higher but not much as $1250/ oz is a very strong resistance point. So I just say that on or before next Friday, 17 Dec13 gold will at least push above $1250/ oz. but the paper gold traders probably will be able to short sell (what they don't have) it back down below $1250. They are IMO, clearly losing control - the law of supply and demand is taking over despite all the big firms, and "experts" still telling gold is headed for $1100 or below soon.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 11, 2014
  14. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    I'm not sure how Bitcoin works, but think distributed computing is used to allow it to be spent. (Validate transfers - screen out frauds) This is a large overhead cost of bitcoin and the very high powered computer nets (upwards of $100,000 in cost each and even new chips specially designed for the task) doing this are rewarded for their service by being allowed to "mine bitcoin." What happens when there are no more bitcoin to mine? How will this huge and growing overhead cost of the "clearing / validating transfers" be paid?

    Perhaps a much more serious problem looms, not just for bitcoin but the entire banking system or any user of 256 bit cryptography data:

    I don't understand much of this, but wonder if these new 256 bit code cracker in the wrong "Geek Hands" could bring down the world's banking and other systems based on what was assumed to be secure 256 bit encryption? When these machines have no more bitcoin to mine - why not mine the bond market records, which is many times larger than all the stocks in total value?

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    End of fiat money? Only precious metals & jewels hold value, not bits?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 12, 2014
  15. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    My Friday prediction (now in bold text below) came true in 1.5 hours into the new trading week on Monday.
    the graph of post 90 seems to be live - still self updating and shows gold at $1250.90 / oz now. If it closes day above $1253.50, I think we are off the races - I.e. the paper gold shorts, who tried to repeal the law of supply and demand, will start buying to limit their loses. BY edit: at 2PM NYC time: gold was at $1253.70 up $6.80 and rising. At NYC close gold was $1254.10/oz , but gave up the $0.10 in first minute of "after hours trading."- not too late to get your bet down on the race to higher value this week. Up $20.80 on Friday & $7.20 today, while stocks are down, yet again (down 1% in 2014 now.)*
    It does my heart good to see Goldman Sucks appearing to be caught short on gold and today, still trying to talk it down, but to be even slightly creditable they have raised the target from $1100 to $1150 / oz
    Perhaps others are starting to realize than not only bitcoin may be come worthless, but so may all fiat currencies for reasons I described in post 91 (the new fast 256 bit encryption code craking chips, which bitcoin has created) put bank records and even the bond market at risk. I.e. only precious metals and jewels are surely safe now.
    * Gold closed out 2013 at $1204/ oz thus at $1253/oz the gain is 4% Anyone have data on percent change in bitcoin thus far in 2014?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 13, 2014
  16. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member

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    256-bit isn't as high as encryption can go, it's really dependent on who the banks hired to write their software (most of the recent problems in electronic banking has been down to attempted large scale re-writes of old system which themselves were poorly designed in their hayday.)

    As for Bitmining, from what I can gather it's only of use during the "Seeding" of bitcoins, when it reaches the limit that no more bitcoins can be produced, all of the specialised hardware will be useless, unless turned to other electronic currencies (Litecoins etc). This itself suggests that once Bitcoin reaches that point, interest in it will be pulled (shifting to the other currencies) causing a collapse. Bitcoin is about Greed not Need, it could be questioned as to if it's actually an elaborate ploy to get the world richest and greediest men and women to invest, just to collapse the "pyramid".
     
  17. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    You know much more than I do about computers. I can recall back when computers were less capable and running installed software, not special designed quasi-hard wired to rapidly test 256 bit guesses, that we were told 256 bit encryption was "unbreakable" as it would take computer 100s of years to break the encriptions. Now it seems that for guessing bitcoin keys, a few 100 hours may on average be all that is required.

    The article I quoted did not, as you agree, say that these new 256 chips designed for quickly guessing bitcoin keys may surely have great use in more general breaking of 256 bit encryption, BUT, did say that the skill / knowledge about how to design chips that greatly accelerate these "guessing solutions" is now a "genie out of the bottle."
     
  18. Syzygys As a mother, I am telling you Valued Senior Member

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    It isn't going to happen in our lifetime, so you shouldn't worry about that. But otherwise I agree with you...

    The protocol has serious issues, currently the 51% attack that causes disturbance in the bitcoin force....
     
  19. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    Quest means business (in Brazil) just announce as Flash news that bitcoin is closed - too many inconsistencies in the complex open computer exchange checking of transfers. I just checked the value - sharp drop of $50.
     
  20. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    * nemo dat quod non habet being Latin for an old principle of English common law: “No one gives what he does not have."
    As I edit (47minute after the hour): A Bitcoin = 628.74 US Dollars
     
  21. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member

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    I'm not actually tempted to join a Mining Pool and this is why:

    I've been trying to get my head around what mining actually accomplishes and I can't see anything useful other than the potential for using it as a shady way to hide up cracking encrypted classified documents or banking information. Technically from what I can gather a hash serves no actual purpose than to tax your CPU for a duration of time. It's not a combined effort to map the human genome, it's not a system develop to solve world problems like world hunger, it literally is something that wastes time and most importantly "Energy".

    One thing that the more prosperous miners have looked at is their kWh's (kilowatt hours) to H/h (Hash hours) value, if the value of the hashes profit stoops lower than the cost of the energy consumed then they won't actually be making money, instead they will actually be losing money.

    That's not the actual problem, the actual problem is the increasing popularity of the mining method of accumulating wealth, what the average miner (perhaps blinded by greed) doesn't take into consideration is that the more of them wasting time processing hashes, the more energy is consumed. The more demand there is for energy, the higher the costs rise for the available energy. In essence the greed of coining could become like a DDoS attack in regards to our energy infrastructure, where demand outweighs supply.

    (The costs would rise because every time the supply is outweighed, the energy companies would have to invest in upgrading which doesn't get pushed on increased costs on just the heavy users, but palmed off on all people that are supplied by those energy firms.)

    It could lead to brownouts/blackouts and people of a impoverish nature only being about to have power for a certain number of hours a day because they can't afford to have power all the time.
    It could also lead to regulation similar to how ISP can throttle heavy downloaders, some extreme miners might find that they start having blackouts at specific times of day just so they don't undermine the service that provides energy to everyone else. (If you are mining without Uninterrupted Power Supplies [UPS], now would be a good time to get them.)
    (Obviously I'm embellishing a worst case scenario)

    This does mean however that Energy companies Shares will climb through people pushing demand for energy up while trying to make money.

    The only miners that will actually make money by that point would not be apart of this problem by using Renewable Energy supplies, which in turn would push the shares up on those companies that deal in Renewable Energy equipment.
     
  22. Syzygys As a mother, I am telling you Valued Senior Member

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    Miners keep the system alive. Without mining the system doesn't survive. It is an incredibly expensive system right now, the cost of one new coin's creation is about $50 in electricity and hardware...
     
  23. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    Worse still:
     

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