Humans and logic

Dywyddyr said:
We CAN think logically at times. But we certainly don't do it all the time.
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When we don't think logically, are our brains not logical brains, or do we have a logical and an illogical brain at all times, it's a sort of contest?
And I'm not sure agree that we're logical in "the same sense that computers are" without further definition from you on "how" computers are logical.
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If you don't understand how computers are logical and what the basis of that logic is, I'm not sure I can compare computers with brains for you.

They might work differently--one has transistors the other has neurons--but both are constructed and function logically.
 
Daecon said:
I will get my hair cut at some time in the next 12 months.
I might, or might not, change my hair colour at some time in the next 12 months.
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These are conditional statements, the logic (true/false) depends on a future condition, a future history.

If a statement is logical, it can be posed as a question with a yes/no answer.
So: are humans logical? doesn't have a logical answer that says: "sometimes". We either are something (creatures with logical brains), or we aren't. If you want to include temporal logic, that's different. A computer is a logical device when it's switched off too.

Ergo, the universe has a logical construction--the laws of physics--even if it doesn't exist at any time.
 
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Is the first one really conditional, though? I most definitely will get my hair cut by this time next year, so it's definitely true - it's just not referring to something that's already happened.

I do agree that the second statement is conditional.
 
arfa brane said:
When we don't think logically, are our brains not logical brains, or do we have a logical and an illogical brain at all times
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"Logical" and "illogical" are STATES - like "asleep" and "awake".
Thus the sentence "the brain is logical" is no more (or less true) than "I am asleep": sometimes it's true, sometimes it's not.

If you don't understand how computers are logical and what the basis of that logic is, I'm not sure I can compare computers with brains for you.
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I asked what YOU meant by the words.
A computer OPERATES in a logical manner. When it operates. Turn it off and it's not logical anymore.
Plus computers, generally, work on binary logic (when they're working), brains don't necessarily do so.

They might work differently--one has transistors the other has neurons--but both are constructed and function logically.
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Both are capable of doing so.
 
Daecon said:
Is the first one really conditional, though? I most definitely will get my hair cut by this time next year, so it's definitely true
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It's conditional in that you may not be alive at that time, there may be no barbers available to cut your hair, you may go bald... ;)
 
Dywyddyr said:
It's conditional in that you may not be alive at that time, there may be no barbers available to cut your hair, you may go bald... ;)
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Oh! That's actually a very good point, that never occurred to me.

I take it back then. :)
 
Dywyddyr said:
It's conditional in that you may not be alive at that time, there may be no barbers available to cut your hair, you may go bald... ;)
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This is true so logicall means what is predictable at any given moment basically something completely determined. In this universe there are not many examples of that perhaps only mathematics.
 
The statement was a statement of INTENT, not a solid incontrovertible prediction.
 
Dywyddyr said:
The statement was a statement of INTENT, not a solid incontrovertible prediction.
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Then only the latter is logical most of the time at least since humans are not logical an error in thinking always has a non zero chance of occurring.

The former is highly dependant on probable chronological events.

Humans can be logical chronologically speaking but that does not make it an incontrovertible prediction.
 
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BrianHarwarespecialist said:
Yes I added that above.
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In which case you'd have been better off just deleting your post since it now longer makes sense (not that your posts do so in general anyway).
Plus, of course my comment wasn't referring solely to the human use of logic, which further makes a nonsense of your addendum.
 
Dywyddyr said:
Whut?
As I've previously stated humans CAN be logical.
Plus, making a solid incontrovertible prediction is not guaranteed by the use of logic.
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It's only garanteed in a completely determined state of existence. Nothing is always logical in a probable universe because of probability. There is logic within paremeters like a logical consensus, but errors can still exist so the consensus is only considered logical but a non zero chance will always exist that the consensus may not be logical. Only logical in that particular context.
 
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And now you've decided to post in your native language: Incoherent.
 
Dywyddyr said:
In which case you'd have been better off just deleting your post since it now longer makes sense (not that your posts do so in general anyway).
Plus, of course my comment wasn't referring solely to the human use of logic, which further makes a nonsense of your addendum.
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I wasn't talking about just humans.
 
A statement can be logical if all information can be known, or it can be considered logical if all information known can be agreed upon. But that still leaves the opportunity for the former to invalidate the latter.
 
Thus the sentence "the brain is logical" is no more (or less true) than "I am asleep": sometimes it's true, sometimes it's not.
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No, it's always true. If it wasn't always true then we would not be logical. Illogical behaviour is not the same as having a logical brain.
If your brain is a thing that can be in an illogical state, does that mean your body is also in an illogical state?

Turn it off and it's not logical anymore.
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So there must be a possibility that it won't work logically if it's turned on.

So the answer to the question: Are computers logical, is: sometimes, when you turn them on. But that isn't a yes/no answer, so it isn't a logical answer. The correct answer is yes, computers are logical, even when they aren't running or if a hardware or software error occurs.
 
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arfa brane said:
So there must be a possibility that it won't work logically if it's turned on.

So the answer to the question: Are computers logical, is: sometimes, when you turn them on. But that isn't a yes/no answer, so it isn't a logical answer.
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Are humans logical? Sometimes, when they want to be.

That, also, isn't a yes/no answer, so it can't likewise be a logical one.
 
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