Human Life and Sin

kx000:

You ignored the most important question I asked you: how do you know that any of this stuff you believe about God is real and/or true?

Instead, you just made some more claims that you're unable to support, and you contradicted yourself in the process.

Clearly, he/she/it does. And not just me. Lots of people. If I stub my toe, your God does nothing to relieve my suffering. When a bomb kills an innocent child, your God does nothing to help the child or to prevent the suffering of the family.

You don't believe there is a problem of evil, because you say that your God is evil. Is that correct?

i.e. your God is an evil God.

Tell me, then. Why do you worship your God? Why would anybody want to worship something that hates them?

Your God is punishing me for sins that are not mine? Well, that fits in with your whole "God is evil" thing, I suppose. Arbitrary punishment for manufactured crimes would be right up an evil deity's alley, I guess.

Fine. But there must be something that has convinced you that not only is God possible, but that it is actual.

What convinced you?

Great! Then you must have some good reasons for believing your evil God is real.

What are they? If you tell me, maybe you'll convince me, too.

You're nuts if you think that I will suffering on anybody, least of all myself. Who would will suffering upon themselves?

I'm willing to have God in my life, just as soon as you convince me that your God is real. But if he is evil, like you say, I won't worship him.

What convinced you that this God of yours is real?

Which God is it? Is it the God of the bible? Is it your own special God?

 

Ivan:

Do you believe in a god, without any scientific evidence? If so, why? What convinced you that the god is real? The anecdotal evidence?

The fact that matter exists is not evidence that it was designed, directly or indirectly.

Nor is the fact that we lack a theory to explain the physical constants evidence that a god exists. That is a "god of the gaps" argument that you're trying to run: if we can't currently explain something (scientifically) then god must have done it. It's a fallacy, a false dichotomy.

 

kx000:

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Is it possible for somebody to believe something and it not to be true? If so, then belief is not necessarily truth. Right? What do you think?

And, according to you, if belief isn't truth, then (all?) life goes to natural hell? Does that mean all life is going to hell, then?

Which hell?

Who doesn't believe in life?

Life is like a grapefruit.

I don't think "genocide" means what you think it means. Maybe look it up.

Suppose I'm caught in an earthquake and I die. How is that due to my sins?

Does your God make sure that sinners suffer proportionately, then? How?

But obviously he knew his creation would suffer because of its own actions when he created it. So, it follows that he created it because he wanted it to happen. Right?

We all ignore hurt all the time, especially when it occurs to other people or animals that are far from us. We don't seem to suffer anything extra because of that. Nor, I think, does it necessarily make us evil. What do you think?

So, you weren't including yourself when you wrote "God hates us, that is why we suffer."

You're the exception to that rule because you suffer "by nature"? What makes you special?

Also, doesn't this contradict your contention that all suffering is because God hates us? What is this suffering by nature thing, then?

How do you fight this thing called the devil?

Why do you need a devil, when you already have a hate-filled God to worship?

Who gets to go to heaven? Why would God send anybody to heaven if he hates us all?

Previously you wrote "you are being punished for the sins of man."

Did you change your mind since yesterday?

If God is passive, then he isn't doing any punishing for the sins of man. Right?

I don't understand the distinction you're trying to make?

Have you ever used an antiseptic spray - say a surface cleaner or mould remover? How does that fit in with your Ahimsa? Is not all life sacred?

I don't know what that means. Can you explain?

I assume you're not saying that literally there's a voice inside you from God. So why "spoken word"? Did God speak to you? When? How?

Why does nature remaining untarnished depend on you having a belief? I don't understand.

What is the source of this hope you speak of? Your God, who, you say is passive, or actively punishing you for the sins of man (I'm not sure which it is), hardly seems like the sort of thing that would give you hope.

What? And do nothing at all?

This is even more confusing.

Is it a God who actively punished people for the sins of man, or is there karma, where the universe has some kind of magical, automatic proportional response to whatever we do? Is it a passive God, like you say, and karma is the real active force in the world? What need is there for God, in that case?

Can you explain?

God won't do anything. He's passive, according to you. Right?

What would cause me to go to hades?

What would rebelling against God look like, anyway? How do you know what God wants? What does your passive God want, anyway?

 

kx000:

Your theology is a bit self-contradictory.

On the one hand, you claim that we're all being punished by your God because of Adam's original sin. But on the other hand, you claim that God doesn't punish anybody and that there's another force in the universe called "karma", which somehow balances up the scales of good and evil.

Which is it? Are you a Christian or a Hindu? Or do you like to mix and match your religion? Your current synthesis doesn't seem to be coherent, to me.

Is sin a problem in the world? The Christians think it is. Hindus, not so much.

Christians believe that we all live just once. Then, God judges us and we go to heaven or hell.
Hindus believe that we are endlessly reincarnated and that karma determines what our station will be in the next life (which happens right here on Earth).

Which one do you believe? Or do you have your own mix-and-match combination of the two?

While you think about it, I'll respond to your previous post.

Beliefs can be false, though. People can believe things that are false. So belief can't be truth, right?

You didn't address this in your last reply. Why not? Why are you just repeating the same claim over again? Don't you see the problem?

So it's not karma. I'm being punished for Adam's original sin. Right? It's not about anything I did. It's Adam's fault that I'm a sinner. He made me a partial sinner, just like you. There is nothing I can do about that.

If I don't believe in Jesus as my lord and saviour, what happens to me? Will God understand, or will God bear a grudge against me and send me to hell for failing to believe, even though he must have known I wouldn't believe.

Who made the serpent? Who made free will? Who made Satan?

Your God knew that Adam would sin. He created Adam knowing that Adam would sin. Right? It makes no sense for God to punish Adam for something that God knew would happen and could have prevented but chose not to.

Besides, what does an omnipotent being get out of punishing his creation? It doesn't make any sense.

Do you believe in God because you're afraid of going to hell? Is that the only reason?

Who created the devil?

Why does your omnipotent God allow this devil to run around corrupting His creation? He could stop the devil any time he wanted to, couldn't he? Why doesn't he?

Are you thinking of reincarnation, here? That's not Christianity. Jesus didn't say people would be reincarnated over and over again. On the contrary, he said that would only happen once, at the End of Days. That's what the bible says, anyway.

Are you a Christian or a Hindu, or what, kx000?

Where can I find God's law?

What sense does it make for an omnipotent being to hate me (or to hate anything, for that matter)? An omnipotent being must be complete and content in itself. If there's a problem, it can fix it.

If you see an ant on your kitchen bench, do you hate it, kx000? You have the power of life and death over it. You're bigger and more powerful than the ant. Do you care about whether the ant has sinned? Do you want to punish the ant for its sins?

Can't you see that you would be like the ant, in the eyes of an omnipotent god?

I assume you mean that your God fights the devil with his omnipotence. But an omnipotent God could disappear the devil at any time, or make it so the the devil never existed in the first place.

Why can't God get the job done? Why does your God allow the devil to do his thing?

You've lost me. What or whom do you think I hate? And why?

You told me that your God hates me. Remember? Doesn't that make him the hate filled one?

Just to be clear: I don't hate your God. I don't believe your God is real, so hating your God would be a bit like hating Luke Skywalker. It doesn't make a lot of sense to hate a fictional character. Not in the way you mean it.

Then I'll be fine. Jesus will forgive me for not believing in him or God and he'll let me into heaven. I don't need to do anything special. Right?

So you're not a Christian, then?

I don't understand what you mean.