How much do you stake on your opponent being wrong?

Q:

Do you believe that Jesus existed?

 

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To answer the OP.

I have nothing on stake, I only hope that I learn something no matter how trivial and that perhaps my opponent learns something.

I can say that I always learn something.

 

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Not really. The Jesus myth can be aligned and explained with previous religious myths.

 

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Do you believe that any significant figure in the creation of a new religion existed?

 

Hello?!?!?

If Jews don't believe in Hell doesn't it seem reasonable the Xiantiy, you know, being founded by Jews, shouldn't have a Hell in it's mythos either?

 

Is that directed to me?

 

The Sun.

 

Good answer

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So who worshipped the Sun first?

 

It can of course, be both/and.
In other words a historical person, who was called Jesus by some, existed
and
onto this person earlier myths got added
and some of what is described in the Bible regarding this person is true: for example, he was crucified, he did hang out with some of the people mentioned, he was seen as a religious leader.

That something fits an mythic explanation does not preclude it also existing. You probably did not mean this, but your post could be read this way.

 

His post reads that he doesn't believe in Horus, Jesus or any human being that inspired the civilisations we live in today.

 

Sun worshiper carvings go back some 12,000 years, but the first dominant organized sun worshiping would probably be that of the Egyptians some 5000 years ago. The cult of Ra.

 

So you believe in Pharoah's?

 

Some 40+ years ago when I started to give the issues serious thought I'd guess I had little idea of whether the other debater was right or wrong. For a long time it was a matter of adopting a particular point and pursuing it as if it might be true and then standing back and watching the results. I've argued from both sides with vigor as a technique for discovery.

But the 8+ years I have debated here, in what has been a significant increase in my exposure to those willing to debate, I have adopted a much firmer position based on the arguments I have seen.

1. On the issue of the existence of souls/spirits - I have seen entirely convincing arguments that such things are entirely fictional. So my estimate of a religionist being right here is 0%.

2. On the existence of gods. A wide exposure to the thousands of contradictory concepts of what a god might be leaves me no doubt that such specific gods such as the Christian, Islamic, and Jewish gods are total fiction. My estimate that the religionists that argue for these ideas are correct is 0%.

3. On the issue of whether a god of some type might exist. I can certainly imagine a scenario where mankind or any advanced intelligence could continue to evolve into a far more unimaginably advanced state and that we might call such a result a god. But then to a primitive caveman our modern day technology might well lead them to call us gods. It is perhaps all relative and depends on how one defines a god. In this case I have no way to access the chance that such a god may or might not occur or whether it would have any right to be so labeled.

 

George Washington?

 

The religious/political title for Egyptian kings believed to be descendants of Horus?

 

Aye.

So basically you're living in the past unless you were joking in which case I challenge you to answer the OP question.

 

you know greenberg, i got to thinking and, this quote right here is the answer to your question. is this why you got so mad at me when i called you out on it? i said you don't want to know god and you said i don't want to know god.

see...we agree after all.

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Why don't you all just ask god what he's like?

 

*************
M*W: It is totally beyond my understanding that there is a "lake of fire." That actually describes what ancient man called the sun. Don't get me wrong. I love lakes, and I love fishing, but the whole idea of a "lake of fire" is ridiculous. It's actually an ancient version of sun-worship.

Adstar--I think you are really looking forward to your dip in the "lake of fire." For now, I hope you enjoy your basks in the sun.

If there was a Jesus (which there is NOT), why do you think he would send you to the "lake?" What that means is that Jesus would send you to the sun, and if that were possible, it's not a bad "thing." That's just totally impossible in any event!

Please wake up and smell the chrism.

Adstar, what is your demonination? Notice that the prefix to the word is "demon." You cannot possibly be that evil! We may not agree... but I don't think you're that evil. If you believe in a god (which I know you do), you should have hope. I thought that was what xians had over us atheists???

*************
M*W's Friendly Atheist Quote (FAQ)of the Day:

"If God wants us to do a thing he should make his wishes sufficiently clear. Sensible people will wait till he has done this before paying much attention to him." ~ Samuel Butler

*************
M*W's Anti-Bitterness Comments (ABCs) of the Day:

"All things are possible until they are proved impossible -- even the impossible may only be so as of now." ~ Pearl S. Buck, 1892-1972, American Writer and Missionary

 

for you greenberg...

Escape With Me

I’ll always tell you the truth.
Does that mean anything to you?
Forsaken the lies...
Forsaken goodbyes...
Are you strong enough to stay?

Overcome your desire to run.
Why do you want to be alone?
Alone in the dark...
Alone and in hell...
Are you strong enough to leave?