How do you feel about guns?

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by lixluke, Jul 31, 2006.

?

Guns

  1. Have no place in this world. Should be abolished like slavery.

    33 vote(s)
    36.7%
  2. Are every human's right.

    57 vote(s)
    63.3%
  1. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,931
    tiassa, I think the man was being prudent, there have been many occasions in the new were party goers have been evicted from their revelry and have retaliated against those who have stopped their fun, as long as the man was in his apartment and on his own ground there was nothing wrong in what he did, there may not have been any chance of trouble but with the attitude of many people today there could have been, and I'm quite sure that the Police didn't hang around any longer than they had to, it being a weekend I'm sure they were very busy. And no he would not be able to kill a child on the other side of the wall with out legal repercussions, you are responsible for every round that you fire and have to account for why you chose to fire and then justify the decision, and be backed by fact, and in the end if you are justified you still are not off the hook as your own humanity will cause you problem to live with for years after the incident is over.
     
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  3. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    53,966
    My Grandfather kept his two pistols loaded all the time. It still didn't prevent my Grandmother from being mugged in their driveway.

    I'm for gun ownership as long as it replaces the need for standing armies.
     
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  5. lixluke Refined Reinvention Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,072
    The man was clearly a nutcase. That's what gives.
     
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  7. lixluke Refined Reinvention Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,072
    The 2nd amendment is a joke. A gun is nothing more than a device of modern day technology. It is a temporality object that has no basis in unchanging ethical rights.
    I suppose some would believe that every individual should have the right to possess a handheld device that could blow up the entire planet. After all it is an inanimate object.
     
  8. Neildo Gone Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,306
    Every individual should be able to do whatever they want, so long as it doesn't harm another against their will. You know, that little thing called freedom?

    - N
     
  9. Prince_James Plutarch (Mickey's Dog) Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,214
    Cool Skill:

    Arms means more than just guns. It also means knives, clubs, martial arts training...
     
  10. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,053
    So ...for example, you'd support your neighbor if he began to stock thousands of pounds of C4 explosives in his house ...right beside your own house? You'd consider that ...ahh, freedom?

    Because he's harmed no one with all that explosive ....yet ...right? So he should be free to stock it all? And you'd support his right to that freedom?

    Baron Max
     
  11. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,053
    Well, that makes little sense! ...LOL! There was also a guy 10,000 miles away who didn't help your grandmother either, so what the fuck does that have to do with any-fuckin'-thing?

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    Why can't you have both? Why do they have to be mutually exclusive? I don't understand your reasoning ...care to explain?

    Baron Max
     
  12. Neildo Gone Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,306
    I find that disturbing calling the 2nd ammendment a joke coming from someone who believes the government was behind 9/11. I see you won't be one to stand up against them if the time ever comes.

    - N
     
  13. lixluke Refined Reinvention Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,072
    No kidding. Are you really that dumb? It's not my fault you are way to ignorant and manure minded to understand the actual debate.
     
  14. Neildo Gone Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,306
    Ha blah blah blah blah..

    - N
     
  15. Does anybody want a peanut?
     
  16. thedevilsreject Registered Senior Abuser Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,812
  17. lixluke Refined Reinvention Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,072
    You are a progun fanatical nutcase.
     
  18. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    Messages:
    36,391
    Mod Hat - Ahhhh ....

    Thank you.

     
  19. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    Messages:
    36,391
    TheDevilsReject

    Great clip. It's so wonderfully demonstrative of both sides.

    (And let's hear it for paprika!)
     
  20. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    Messages:
    36,391
    Buffalo Roam

    I suppose that's true, but even still, it seems so paranoid. I guess I still think of that kid in Texas all those years ago (the one I think I've already mentioned, shot to death from behind a closed door for the crime of asking directions). I mean, how would it go?

    (There is a knock at the door)

    Resident: (cautiously, peering into the viewer and reaching for the Glock) Yes ...? Who is it?

    Neighbor: (from behind closed door) Hola, amigo. Look, man, I just wanted to--

    (There is a loud noise as Resident draws the weapon and fires four shots through the door.)

    (Later)


    Resident: (leaning against police car) Honestly, Deputy, I was scared for my life ... first the raucous party, and then he's there leering and stalking outside my door. I called to him but he threatened me.

    Officer: (nods) Uh-huh. Just the other night, me and the missus ....

    (The next day. An NRA Spokesman holds a press conference.)

    NRA Spokesman: (smugly) Once again, we see how handguns serve the people, how they are an asset to society ....

    My biggest issue with "gun control" is understanding two key phrases. One is Constitutional, the other is by now a cliche:

    - Constitutional: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State ...."

    - Political: "... responsible gun owners"

    It is accepted that the "well regulated Militia" is not limited to the National Guard, and such, but when the gun-owning lobby quotes the Second, they tend to leave out the first half. (e.g. "Gun control is unconstitutional because the Second Amendment says, 'The right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.'") There are some gun owners I've met in my day that are convinced that any regulation of firearms is unacceptable. I need a license to drive a car, why not to operate a machine designed to kill things? Inevitably, the debate turns toward whether convicted violent criminals or people legally defined as non compos mentis ought to own guns. And then the line always comes out: "You can't punish responsible gun owners." Or some such. Eventually, the debate appeals to how the laws hurt "responsible gun owners" by either burdening them with licensing or educational requirements, or limiting the kinds of guns they can own. (Look, even if every gun owner in the country had an M-16, they wouldn't stop the tanks! Or the airplanes. And, frankly, no, I feel safer knowing that if one asshole pulls a gun in a McDonald's, I won't find myself surrounded by a mob mentality armed with a dozen automatic weapons. Maybe we should step it up to the 40-mm grenade launchers. Frankly, the fewer nervous trigger fingers I have around me, the safer I feel. Yes, this is hyperbole to a degree, at least a digression; but it is parenthetic.) Given the number of gun owners I've known over the years, considering that they've all acted irresponsibly with their weapons (save one), and that they all seem to have a tendency to actually boast of those irresponsibilities, as if they were somehow something to be proud of, and considering ... well, I guess it's just my whole experience with guns and their owners, but what the hell does anybody mean by the phrase, "responsible gun owner"?

    Er, sorry. I'll calm down. How do I feel about guns, as per the topic? I hate the f@cking things. Look, when we have personal-defense phasers that are permanently set to stun, maybe I'll reconsider. To the other, how do I feel about "gun owners"? Between those I've known and the tone of the public debate, "gun owners" are a scary bunch of people. And, apparently, quite frightened.

    (And you know, I carried a knife once upon a time; it was a real dandy, could go through a car door. Er, in case I needed it to. My friend carried one that could split a .45 round at point-blank without significant damage to its edge. Um, in case he ever needed it to. I do know that we were always more defensive, and were quick to consider our weapons when trouble arose. I'm a lot calmer these days that I go unarmed. And I watched a couple things hapen; my friend is the one gun owner I know with whom I have no complaint. In fact, he gave up carrying a gun shortly after he started because he decided he did not need it. Perhaps the thrill of it, or whatever, wore off quickly. And the other is that the quick reaction translated in our circle of friends among two others who bought guns about the same time; yeah, truly, one guy picked up a nine, then in quick succession two of our friends went out and got a .40 and a .45 No, it wasn't penis envy; it was almost dumber than that. But damn it, I swear the world isn't nearly as threatening to me when I'm unarmed as when I carry a blade.)

    As to the Constitutional, though, as the first portion still stands, what does it mean these days?
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2006
  21. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,149
    Okay, but you are trying to use a minsicule percentage and claim it is indicative of an entire population. That is like claiming that is 300 people in the US die due to breaking their own neck while jumping on a trampoline in a garage that trampolines should be registered, licensed, or banned.

    Well, the problem is that when our forefathers set up the Constitution they recognized two very important things. For a nation to be free the Government must fear The People and for the Nation to remain free The People will have to defend themselves. Now at this time they let the people use the military weapons of the day, Muskets, Cannon, Rifles, Bayonets, Swords, Hatchets, and Bows. Yes true those weapons are jokes compared to today's arsenals. However they were the pinnacle of military technology at the time. Now, I think gun owners have been extremely kind and let the hoplophobes disarm them to an extent. And to be fair we have LET the rest of you disarm us, we are the majority. The result has been disasterous. Violebnt crime is up, hell crime across the board is up. Now this might not be entirely due to the absence of weapons, but I am sure our disarmed society cannot be helping much.

    Now if you don't feel safe carrying a gun don't, however you have NO right to tell another law abiding citizen he or she can't. The moment you do you are nothing less than a dictator.
     
  22. Neildo Gone Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,306
    Funny, I thought I was a far-lefty from what all the right-wingers say, lol.

    - N
     
  23. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    34,678
    TW Scott:

    I thought they recognised that the government was the people.

    What is the military for, then?

    And the majority is always right, in the world of TW Scott.

    What disarmed society? Every 2nd person has a gun in America.

    Unfortunately, that is the case in the United States. Most other advanced western nations are more enlightened in that regard.

    The evidence shows that some private citizens can't be trusted with guns. It therefore makes sense to limit gun ownership to those who actually need them.
     

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