How do you feel about guns?

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by lixluke, Jul 31, 2006.

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Guns

  1. Have no place in this world. Should be abolished like slavery.

    33 vote(s)
    36.7%
  2. Are every human's right.

    57 vote(s)
    63.3%
  1. heliocentric Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,117
    Americans really seem to like them, its an inherent human right to own them too (apparently).
    Personally i think they look really cool, but at the same time im conscious of the fact that theyre designed to take away life, so part of me feels strongly repelled by them at the same time.
     
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  3. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,053
    No, James, I think ye're wrong. I think most people don't like gun violence, etc, but when push comes to shove, they seem to disagree with most gun control issues. Perhaps they just don't like the government stickin' their damned nose into every-freakin'-thing we do or like or enjoy!

    But isn't that how our system works? And where do you suppose the gun lobby gets their money? You sound like you don't approve of lobbyists, but I bet you'd say different if the ANTI-gun nuts had a powerful lobby, wouldn't you?

    Oh, good heavens, that's easy!! Machine guns are so damned much fun to shoot that they oughta' have them at state fairs and such ...$2 to shoot a whole clip! I'd waste my whole bank account! ...LOL!

    RPGs, on the other hand, are dangerous to shoot, not to mention that they're dirty and get the shooter's face and clothes all filthy! And breathing that blast exhaust probably causes cancer of the lungs ...surely you wouldn't wnat the government to approve such a hazardous tool, would you?

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    Baron Max
     
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  5. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    32,775
    Baron Max:

    No, that's just the neo-cons and other far right w(h)ingers.

    From fanatics.

    I don't approve of lobbies which wield disproportionate amounts of influence. In a democracy, that is necessarily a bad thing. Why should certain selected minorities be granted special access to government, over all the other minorities? It reeks of cronyism.

    I asked for a good argument. Remember?
     
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  7. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,149
    Gun nuts are a minority in the US. Of course by my definition of Gun nut I am referring to the whack jobs who believe that the average citizen has absolute no business even being near a gun. Now Gun owners, Gun right advocates, and people at least nuetral to the issue of owning guns are in a vast majority, but since the Media does not like this view it is no shown as much.

    What's to sort out that the rights of the many out weigh the whiny crabass opinions of the few.

    And yes, by that we mean anything more that making sure the person takes gun safety courses, or can pass a test. Thank to the Second Amendment there should not be any other restriction. Other than I do not think the public needs access to explosive area effect weapons or ordinace. Grenade launcher is fine as long as you have smoke, flare, or tear gas...lol

    A fully automatic weapon is still just an individual hazzard. A mishap with such a weapon will not usually destroy cars, homes, or wound people that weren't in a direct line to your target. A rocket launcher is an imprecise beast that can kill anything near your target if the warhead is not HEAT.
     
  8. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,053
    TW, we're replying to these people as if they're reasonable about this issue. They aren't ...they simply want to take things from people because they want control over others. It's as simple as that. They want their own freedoms, but they want all others to feel and think as they do ....and if not, then they want to force their feelings and thoughts onto us. It's as simple as that ...and nothing we can say will change their minds. Why argue with them any longer?

    I'm done with this thread ....and I still have my guns!

    Baron Max
     
  9. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,149
    I am beginning to see you are correct Baron. Given the wording they have used and thier arguments it is increasingly obvious that they are byond any sort of reasoning. I do not pretend to know all the answers, but I do know that you can't make people safer by taking away freedoms. And I know I can't get everyone to see that, but I was at least hoping to get across that forcing your choice on others is morally wrong.
     
  10. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    32,775
    No, they want to take guns away so they don't kill so many people. It's as simple as that.

    Yes, just as you do.

    It's for your own good.

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    Hehe. Coming for you, I find this immensely amusing.

    But you can make them safer by taking away their guns!
     
  11. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,053
    Just remember to stand you ground when it comes time for donations or voting, and they'll never succeed.

    Yeah, me either. But notice that the liberal gun-control advocates always "know" what's best for everyone!

    If a measure was proposed that would keep guns out of the hands of criminals, I'd be all for it ...as long as it didn't take guns from law-abiding citizens.

    Baron Max
     
  12. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,053
    Strange ...when I talk about rampant violent crime, you give me statistics showing that the chances of getting killed or assualted is slim-to-none. You also claim that I'm scared or living in fear, and there's nothing to be afraid of. Yet here, with this topic, you're the one acting so fearful of getting killed by violent crime?? What's deal, James?

    Is violent, gun-related crime a big deal or not? Make up your mind, okay?

    Baron Max
     
  13. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    32,775
    Who said anything about violent crime? I'm worried that you or TW Scott might shoot yourselves by accident.
     
  14. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,053
    ahh, so you're living in fear, huh, James?! ...LOL!

    Hey, use the same logic that you use about violent crime .....what's the chances of TW or me having an accident with our guns?????

    Baron Max
     
  15. Bells Staff Member

    Messages:
    22,978
    Are you? I'd find it quite amusing to be honest. The thought of either one of those two accidently losing part of a foot, genitals, backside, etc, from their own gun.. I don't know but it makes me chuckle.
     
  16. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    32,775
    Well, you tell me. You've been around for a while.

    Have you ever had an accident with your gun, or known somebody who has had such an accident?

    And in your life have you ever been a victim of violent crime, or known anybody who has?

    Describe the relevant incidents.
     
  17. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,149
    Actually, James R. the only gun accident among the people I personally know, my uncle accidently broke his finger when he fell while holding his shot gun. The gun did not go off, it just hit the ground at an odd angle and snapped his finger like a twig. Of course the same uncle is quite accident prone and has done almost every stupid accident you can think of, except with his gun. He respected that piece of equipment and was as careful with it as any soul could be.

    As fo a violent crime. When I was a bouncer in a real blood and guts bar in an out of the way bar in a real hick town, i was assualted with a knife. I was doing the turn out check and any one who had a red napkin was supposed to turned out. It was signal arranged by the bartender and waitresses. Well, as politely as I could I informed the man that he'd been cut off, and that management would like him to leave for the night. He readily agreed until he was standing. Next thing I know he jabbed an Arkansas Toothpick in my leg (it's a particular kind of knife) I proceeded to panic and beat the man (who was much smaller than me) unconscious. Now ambulance came and took us both to the hospital. I wound up with nice puncture wound i had to pour iodine in every day for weeks and he wound up with broken cheek, jaw, fractured ulna, and a disloacted shoulder. I later found out that he had done things like this before, but all the last guy had to do was show his gun to get the asshole to let go of the knife. Next paycheck I paid for my classes, took my tests, and finally bought my first gun six weeks later. A rather nice S&W snubnosed .38 that looked more intimidating than it really was.
     
  18. Oniw17 ascetic, sage, diogenes, bum? Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,423
    Those little revolvers aren't that intimidating(unless you watch those old movies).
     
  19. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    32,775
    Being attacked when you are a bouncer is hardly the same thing as being attacked in the normal course of your life. You become a bouncer knowing that at some stage things might get a bit violent. It's a risk of the trade, and you agree to it. It's like becoming a policeman or a security guard or a soldier.
     
  20. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,149
    So apparrently stabbing a secuirity guard, policeman or soldier is okay in your book? How did you become so callous? You asked how I was the victim of a violent crime and I chose one. A stabbing is a stabbing, I don't care what your job is or if it is what some completely useless people think is part of the job.
     
  21. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    32,775
    I didn't say that.

    Let me give you another example. Suppose you're a fireman. That means you voluntarily run into burning buildings under some circumstances, and put yourself in a certain amount of danger. It goes with the job.

    This in no way implies that I want firefighters to die in horrible fire incidents. Nor do I want bouncers to die or be injured in bar fights. But, you must admit, if you're a bouncer, it is an occupational hazard that at some stage you might find yourself in a bar fight. You accept the risk when you take the job - just like the firefighter.

    As I said before, you're the one packing heat, not me.

    I agree it is a violent crime. My only point is that it is out of the ordinary, and you put yourself in a position where it became more likely to happen to you than to the average joe on the street.
     
  22. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,053
    It only has to happen once, James. But I find it so interesting, so odd, that you're so willing to gamble on your life and/or health, and take no precautions toward self-defense. And worse, of course, is that you want everyone esle to take the same gamble and not defend themselves and their family.

    We pay for insurance on our cars ....NOT because we're planning to get into an accident, NOT because we're not careful, but because the odds are that we MIGHT be in an auto accident. Some people carry auto insurance for their entire lives, paying lots of money, and never, ever have an accident.

    I just don't like the odds, James. If I don't legally carry a gun, then IF and WHEN something happens, I MIGHT be able to protect myself. If nothing ever happens, then my carrying the gun is just like carrying insurance on my car and never having an accident.

    What you and other gun-control advocates are trying to do is to take away that chance at self-defense if something ever occurs. You want me to gamble with my life, and the life of my family, in the same way as you gamble with your own.

    Accidents with guns? Of course there are accidents with guns, but there are also accidents with cars. It's those "incidents" that we carry auto insurance. And it's because of possible "incidents" that we carry guns. But you want to take that insurance away from me and others, forcing us to take the same gamble, the same chances, at you take. That ain't nice, is it?

    Baron Max
     
  23. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,053
    True! And let me expand that a little. Suppose you're living in a big city. Big cities have incidents of violent crime against citizens. That means that you've voluntarily put yourself in a certain amount of danger. It goes with being a citizen of a big city.

    Now we all know that firemen use many tools and specialized equipment for their own self-protection. You and I both agree with that precaution, right? Yet you disagree that an ordinary citizen should take any similar precautions against the possible violent crime of the cities. How? Why? You would want or expect the firemen to discard their equipment, yet you want us to walk on the streets with no protection at all. That makes no sense.

    Baron Max
     

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