How Catholics Can Evangelize Atheists

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Michael, Apr 19, 2005.

  1. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

    Is this just a tab bit twisted?

    I have to say, it's scary to think, potentially 1 billion Catholics buy into this crap and lack-of-God only knows how many more Protestants and Muslims think likewise. Its truly a wicked world we live in.

    How Catholics Can Evangelize Atheists
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  3. okinrus Registered Senior Member

    The error is in extending Darwin's theory of evolution to social affairs. Catholics actually can believe in Evolution; the author here making an unjustified statement.
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  5. Joeman Eviiiiiiiil Clown Registered Senior Member

    Those are not real Catholics because they are not Christians. A Christian absolutely has to believe that the earth is 6000 years old. That's hardly enough time for speciation except for small insects and bacteria.
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  7. WMA Registered Senior Member

    Christians can too believer in evolution. They might believe it happens much quicker, or that it hasn't happened to as great an extent, but they can still believe it exists.

  8. SnakeLord Valued Senior Member

    Dude, you can't change reality to fit your opinion. You change your opinion to fit reality.

    They're wrong, plain and simple.
  9. §outh§tar is feeling caustic Registered Senior Member

    I don't think those statements about Nietzsche are true. Can anyone confirm?
  10. Pete It's not rocket surgery Registered Senior Member

    Rubbish. Bishop Usher's biblical interpretations aren't universal.
  11. everneo Re-searcher Registered Senior Member

    Darwin was often misquoted. 'survival of the fittest' does not equal to 'survival of the mighty'. fitness indicates a species' ability to survive in a given condition.
  12. Mystech Adult Supervision Required Registered Senior Member

    That's a good point. I'm not entirely sure where the idea that survival of the fittest meant killing off species or races deemed to be inferior. If there is any genuine difference in suitable adaptability then that process will happen on it's own, unless you think that all the works of man are what constitutes "natural". They also seem to overlook man's ability to change his surroundings in order to re-define what constitutes "well suited". . . sort of adapting his surroundings to him rather than the other way around.
  13. water the sea Registered Senior Member

    WHO is to say what Christians or Catholics *HAVE* to believe?
  14. §outh§tar is feeling caustic Registered Senior Member

    Paul/the Pope
  15. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    Mostly the Bible. If you count the years in as literal a fashion as possible, the Bible makes the world to be about six-thousand years old, give or take. Sometime in 4004 BCE, I believe, is when creation occurred according to such a context.

    Remember, the dinosaur bones were just a joke the paleontologists haven't yet figured out.
  16. Leo Volont Registered Senior Member

    Anybody who has any grasp at all upon Social History knows that it was quite true that Darwin's purely Scientific Theories quite jumped the rails in the late 19th and early 20th Centuries and were very influential in preparing the Public Mood for both World War One and World War Two (which Historians will eventually come to see as one big War).

    We still see such Thinking crop up. Look at Joseph Campbell's defense of Barbarism. His argument is that Civilizations have always been destroyed by Barbarism, and so Barbarism must comprise the more powerful and dynamic set of social institutions. Rape, Pillage and Plunder are superior to Religion, Morality, Government, Jurisprudence, Charity and Education because that has always been what everything has come down to in the end. This 'Might Makes Right' thinking is a clear offshoot of the Fascist Thinking that sprung out of Social Darwinism.

    Washington DC has no better defense for Democracy than that it has been able to field armies and economies large enough to take all other Systems off the Field of contention. yet Democracy, on realistic review, has been frought with social unrest and repeated instances of civil conflict and genocide. Woodrow Wilson flat out declared that Democracy reduces down to Ethnic Self-determination -- Nazism 10 years before Adolf Hitler, and Hitler was only a zealous Wilsonian -- that people would vote along Ethnic Lines and a multi-ethnic Democracy would be a political contradiction. And the universal drive toward makeing each nation democratic HAS caused enough instability whereby America could aggragate to itself a primary role in dispensing power and influence through the World. But that is only the Free For All of Barbarism at work. somebody has to be King of the Hill as an amoral and ruthless power struggle plays out, but it is surprising that anybody would suppose such a slaughter house to be the Best of all possible systems, EXCEPT for the Social Darwinist, who supposes the highest of all social arbitars is a good war.

    So the Catholics have a valid point about Darwinism. Anyone who doesn't think so... what planet have you been studying since 1870?
  17. Odin'Izm Procrastinator Registered Senior Member

    Religion was created to give governments an easier way to control the population. but somwhere along the way everyone lost the plot, and we got the inquisition, witch hunts etc

    here is a picture of my former religiouse education teacher:

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

  18. Pete It's not rocket surgery Registered Senior Member

    And why would anyone except fundamentalists do that?
    You know that not all Christians are fundamentalists, right?
  19. Crimson_Scribe Thespian Registered Senior Member

    "Those are not real Catholics because they are not Christians."

    judge not.
  20. audible un de plusieurs autres Registered Senior Member

    Crimson: you are not judging when you state a fact. read and learn what a true xian is, and then you'll understand.
  21. Ozymandias Unregistered User Registered Senior Member

    joeman, where do you get that Christian beliefs necessitates creationist beliefs?

    audible, not only is your claim re: a true Christian disputed and unfounded, but it is also against Christian morality to condemn or judge anyone like that. Or, at all.

    "Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven" (Luke 6:37).

    edit: tiassa, I don't see where the Bible is either written as being infallible or to be taken literally. After all, Jesus spoke in parables -- if God is going to incarnate himself and reveal his teachings through metaphors, whose to say that genesis isn't a big metaphor? Heck, I had always thought that most of the OT was just oral tradition, anyway...
    Last edited: May 30, 2005
  22. water the sea Registered Senior Member

    Define a true Christian.
  23. audible un de plusieurs autres Registered Senior Member

    you did ask.

    A True xian is not easy to find these days nearer impossible.

    Most people don't even know what being a True xian actually means. In fact, most people have never really heard the Gospel that Jesus brought to the world.

    Most just accepted without question the doctrine of the church they were born into because it was the religion of their parents and grandparents
    If so, you might want to examine the beliefs of that organization objectively for yourself, and determine if in fact their practices have a sound foundation in Biblical teaching.

    After the death of Christ the early apostolic church became greatly persecuted in Judea. Decreed heretics by the council of high priests in Jerusalem, and as such subject to death under occupying Roman rule, these severely oppressed first followers of Christ were forced to practice their religion in constant fear and secrecy.
    The Church of God in it's infancy was on the verge of extinction.
    Then God raised up the apostle Paul who spread this same Gospel of Jesus to the Gentiles throughout all of Asia Minor - then even to Rome, thus revitalizing the near vanquished congregation in Judea.
    However, by 53 A.D. (just a little over twenty years after Christ's death), Paul cautioned his followers that this Gospel had begun to be changed - corrupted by the traditions and pagan religious practices of these very same nations he had preached the truth to.

    "I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ." (Gal 1:6-7)

    By 325 A.D., Pagan Rome, conqueror of the known world of it's time, became by a decree of the Emperor Constantine a "Christian Empire". Unfortunately, the brand of Christianity being practiced in Rome at that time was, as Paul had warned, not the same religion that he and the Apostles had been taught by Christ himself.

    Rome was a world conquering Empire that instituted with might it's government, it's laws, it's culture, and it's traditions upon the territories it devoured - traditions that were in fact the same Paganistic religious practices of the Greek, Persian, and Babylonian Civilizations that had in like manner conquered the world centuries before.
    Though their gods and festivals of worship might have been called by different names, each of these ancient cultures in essence, worshiped the same deities and practiced the same religious observances - which were then infused from one conquering empire into the next - weaving like thread this apostate theology into what has become the common fabric of religious belief that has persisted all through history

    Today the this is known by is xianity!

    the Gospel that is preached by the accepted traditional churches of today is not the one that Christ brought, but rather a counterfeit, now merely appropriating His name.

    "For in vain do they worship [Him] teaching not the commandments of God but the doctrines of men ... making the word of God of no effect through your tradition." (Mark 7:7-13)

    a true xian

    1,does not worship on Sunday.

    Lev. 23:3 "There are six days when you may work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, a day of sacred assembly. You are not to do any work; wherever you live, it is a Sabbath to the LORD."

    Sabbath is one of Christ's 10 commandments:
    Exodus 20:8 "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy..."

    Sabbath day changed by man:
    "In the decision to celebrate the weekly festive day of rest on Sunday, (rather than Saturday) it may be that Pagan Roman usages played as large a part as in the fixing of the Christmas festival." (The Catholic Encyclopedia, p. 781, vol. 12.)

    Deut. 4:2 "Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the LORD your God that I give you."

    Christ kept the Sabbath:
    Luke 4:16 "He went to the synagogue as his custom was, on the Sabbath day."

    As did the Apostle Paul:
    Acts 18:4 "He argued in the synagogue every Sabbath and persuaded Jews and Greeks."

    Do as Christ did:
    1Pet. 2:21 "To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps."

    Sabbath to be kept forever:
    Exodus 31:12 "For this is a sign between me and you throughout your generations.
    Exodus 31:16 "...a perpetual covenant..."
    Exodus 31:17 "...a sign forever..."

    Even in the future after Christ's Second Coming:
    Isaiah 66:23 "...from Sabbath to Sabbath all flesh shall come to worship before me, says the Lord."

    Heb 4:19 "The promise of entering his rest [the Millenium] there remains a Sabbath rest (in Greek: 'Sabbatismos') for the people of God."

    Sabbath made for all men:
    Mark 2:27 "And he [Jesus] said to them, 'The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath.'"

    2,does not believe in a Trinity doctrine.

    Bible describes two personages, not three:
    John 1:1-3 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made."

    "In Scripture there is as yet no single term by which the Three Divine Persons are denoted together." (The New Catholic Encyclopedia Online.)

    Holy Spirit is not a person; the original Greek indicates 'it' not 'he':
    John 14:15 "I will request the Father and He will give you another helper to be with you forever, the spirit of the truth, which the world cannot receive because it neither beholds it nor knows it. You know it, because it remains with you and is in you."

    When 'he' is used in scripture, it is referring to the Greek word, 'paraclete', a word which Jesus used to personify the Holy Spirit as: The Comforter; The Counselor; The Helper.

    All of Paul's letters contain this greeting:
    "Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ."
    Could Paul have neglected to included the Holy Spirit if 'he' was one of the 'Holy Trinity'?

    Holy Spirit is the power that emanates from God:
    Romans 15:19 " the power of signs and wonders, by the power of the Holy Spirit..." certain that he does not have an Immortal Soul.

    immortal soul is certain that he does not have an immortal soul.
    The Bible definition of 'soul':
    Gen. 2:7 "And the Lord God formed man out of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul." [Hebrew - Nephesh]

    Nephesh: A breathing creature, i.e. animal. [or man] (The New Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, 1984)

    The soul is subject to death:
    Ezek. 18:4 "The soul that sins shall surely die."

    Immortality is a gift from God - not something we possess:
    Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

    John 3:15-16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only son that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."

    4, is aware that Christmas is not Christ's birthday.

    The Gospel accounts indicate that Jesus was born before the winter season:
    Luke 2:8 "Now there were in the same country shepherds living out in the fields, keeping watch over their flock by night." {Sheep were never in the field by night in Palestine after the third week of October.}

    Inexplicable though it seems, the date of Christ's birth is not known. The gospels indicate neither the day, the month, nor the year. (The Catholic Encyclopedia, p.656, vol. 3, 1967.)

    What history tells us:
    Despite the beliefs about Christ that the birth stories expressed, the church did not observe a festival for the celebration of the event until the 4th century. The date was chosen to counter the pagan festivities connected with the winter solstice; since 274, under the emperor Aurelian, Rome had celebrated the feast of the "Invincible Sun" [or Saturnalia] on December 25. (Christmas, The 1995 Grolier Multimedia Encyclopedia)

    Though the substitution of Christmas for the pagan festival cannot be proved with certainty, it remains the most plausible explanation for the dating of Christmas. (The Catholic Encyclopedia, p.656, vol. 3, 1967.)

    The decoration of the evergreen tree is of Pagan origin and predates Christ's birth:
    Jer. 10:2-4 "Thus sayeth the Lord, learn not the way of the heathen ... for the customs of the people are vain: for one cuteth the tree out of the forest ... they deck it with silver and gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not."

    Man's customs and traditions, even if heartfelt, are not recognized by God as true worship:
    Mark 7:6-7, Matthew 15:9 "Well did Isaiah prophesy of you vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the traditions of men...thus making the word of God of none effect."

    5,and Easter is the ancient pagan fertility goddess.

    God condemned his people for Easter worship:
    Ezekiel 8:6-16 "Son of man, do you see what they are doing, the great abominations ... behold there sat women weeping for Tammuz [son of Ishtar] ... you will see greater abominations ... twenty-five men, with their backs to the temple of the Lord, and their faces toward the East, worshipping the sun ..."

    Jeremiah 44:17 "When we burned incense to the queen of heaven [Ishtar] ... we made cakes [hot cross buns] for her bearing her image ..."

    "As at Christmas, so also at Easter, popular customs reflect many ancient pagan survivals - in this instance, connected with spring fertility rites, such as the symbols of the Easter egg and the Easter hare, or rabbit." (Easter: Britannica Online 1996.)

    "According to the Venerable Bede, the name Easter is derived from the pagan spring festival of the Anglo-Saxon goddess Eostre, and many folk customs associated with Easter (for example, Easter eggs) are of pagan origin." (Easter: The 1995 Grolier Multimedia Encyclopedia.)

    Easter was substituted for the true holy day of Passover that Jesus declared we should observe in memorial (once every year) of him:
    Luke 22:19 "Do this in remembrance of me." John 13:15 "For I have given you an example, that you also should do as I have done to you."

    1Corinthians 5:7 "For Christ, our passover lamb, has been sacrificed. Let us therfore, celebrate the feast [of Unleavened Bread - the holy day following Passover] ... with the unleavened bread of sincerety and truth.

    What does God think of man's traditions?
    Mark 7:13 "... thus making void the word of God through your tradition ..."

    6,knows he will not ascend to Heaven upon his death

    John 13:36 "Where I go you cannot follow..."

    John 14:2-3 "I go to prepare a place for you ...I will come again and will take you to myself that where I am you may be also."

    Acts 2:29-34 "Patriarch David both died and was buried...David did not ascend into the heavens."

    John 6:40 "For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."

    Dan. 12:2 "Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt."

    1 Cor. 15: 22-23 "Just as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will come to life again, but each one in proper order; Christ the firstfruits, and then at his coming, those who belong to him."

    7,is positive that the Bible is the only authoritative source of God's divine word.

    Heb 10:7 "Then said I, lo, I come (in the volume of the book...)"

    Matthew 4:4, Dueteronomy 8:3 "Man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God."

    Revelation 22:7 "Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book."

    8,Most of all, he believes with all his heart that Christ will soon return as King of Kings

    Acts 3:21 "He must remain in heaven until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets."

    Revelation 22:12 Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense.."

    Revelation 11:15-18 "Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, 'The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he shall reign forever...thou hast taken thy great power and begun to reign...and the time for the dead to be judged, for rewarding thy servants, the prophets and saints, and those who fear thy name, both small and great..."

    Revelation 19:11-16 "Then I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse! He who sat upon it is called Faithful and True...the name by which he is called is The Word of God...on his thigh he has a name inscribed, King of kings and Lord of lords."

    9,give's beyond reproach

    "Give to everyone that asketh thee; and from him that
    taketh away thy goods ask not again." Luke 6:30

    "Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would
    borrow of thee turn not thou away." Matt. 5:42

    "But love your enemies, and do them good, and lend never despairing; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be Sons of the Most High: for he is kind toward the unthankful and evil." Luke. 6:35

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