Homophobia

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by Jan Ardena, May 10, 2013.

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  1. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    And the civil rights movement didn't? Black panthers, anyone? It's a product of that group being marginalized in the first place.
     
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  3. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Ah! Thank you!
     
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  5. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    The things that any person says are never "plainly and demonstrably wrong" to him.

    You're talking to the Oldest Hippie, so I certainly agree. But many people do not, and even those of us who do, aren't quite ready to desecrate a funeral ceremony. Hell, I'm glad they found a place to bury Tamerlan Tsarnaev. Seems to me that if you call yourself "civilized," it means that you try to treat everyone with civility. One of the things we Flower Children had to learn is that you can be true to yourself and your dreams and principles, without having to be an asshole about it.

    I hope you're young enough to be excused for feeling that way. It's not necessary. Most people give more to civilization than they take from it--or at least try to and fail through no fault of their own. Even if you don't agree with them about some pretty important stuff.

    Sounds like you just contradicted yourself and agreed with me.

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    But as I have expounded on at length, there are pack-social species like wolves and dolphins and elphants, and there are herd-social species like cattle and zebras. We have the instinct to be pack-social and behave as you describe, but we also have a uniquely enormous forebrain that allows us to override instinctive behavior with reasoned and learned behavior. Over the millennia we have managed to convince ourselves that our "pack" is no longer an extended-family unit of a few dozen people we've depended on and cared for since birth. First it became a village of people we didn't know quite that well, then a city full of anonymous strangers who nevertheless lived in harmony and cooperation because life was simply better that way. Today our "pack" includes people on the other side of the planet who are nothing more than abstractions--just remember Americans weeping over the murder of Neda Agha Soltan by an agent of her government in a street in Tehran--a country our own government insists is our enemy.

    We are now a herd-social species. We don't love everybody, but we don't knock them down either, and we try to accomplish something by all working together--because it's been a successful strategy.

    You might want to read up on the 3,000-year history of antisemitism. Even the Egyptians hated Jews!

    Most of those countries on our side of the war treated their Jews only marginally better than the Germans. The only country on earth that has a perfect score when it comes to the Jews is China. One wing of the Diaspora made it to China and both cultures loved what they saw in each other: pay your taxes, teach your children to read, take a bath periodically, obey the law and be a hard-nosed but honest businessman. Within a couple of centuries they were totally assimilated and there are now empty synagogues in China that are nothing but historical curiosities.

    The USA comes in second. We never actually shot them or burned down their villages, but many neighborhoods had "gentleman's agreements" to not rent or sell to them.

    Well it did kill three percent of the entire world's population. It still stands out in history.

    Nothing more or less than the fact that it was used offensively. After all, "nigger" is merely Southern American dialect pronunciation of "negro," which itself is American butchered phonetics of the Spanish word that simply means "black person" and is pronounced neh-groh.

    Yeah, it's okay. Don't worry about it. This isn't an academy in which everything has to be discussed in the right classroom.

    Thanks for the illustration. I've already started spamming it. If you hear an enormous wave of laughter coming from the nation's capital, you can take credit.

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  7. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

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    From what I've seen, nobody has drawn line.
     
  8. leopold Valued Senior Member

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    maybe it's because you are too shallow to understand the issue.
     
  9. leopold Valued Senior Member

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    what nature would that be rav?
     
  10. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

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  11. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    If you think "shallow" means "understanding the difference between pedophilia and consensual sex between adults" - I would be quite happy to remain not-deep, at least to you.
     
  12. gmilam Valued Senior Member

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    Life's too short to pay attention to idiots. Welcome to ignore.
     
  13. Capracus Registered Senior Member

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    The issue is simple. One man’s pedophilia is another deity’s Immaculate Conception.

    Mary - Mother of Jesus
     
  14. leopold Valued Senior Member

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    no, that isn't what i mean.
    read my posts, i believe my stance is pretty clear on the issue.
     
  15. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    You mean your slippery slope fallacies? You can't even make a legal contract in the USA until you are 18.
     
  16. aaqucnaona This sentence is a lie Valued Senior Member

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    Agreed. And that's a prime reason why scientific education should get more focus, if not for understanding and appreciating our most precious resource - our knowledge and those who work for it then certainly for trying and integrating some of the scientific way of thinking into our day to day life. That way, people can reduce their mistakes and baises while increasing their knowledge. On a related topic, if some great cataclysm was to occur that destroyed all progress since agriculture and you could save just one book, what would it be? It would have to Newton's principia for me - the foundation of most modern science and technology.

    Agreed. Those who are have to do our dirty work must get our respect [though not necessarily our admiration].

    So am I. I mean, while he was a terrorist, he was human too. And in the big picture, he was just a poor sod who caught the wrong [or outdated/not optimally beneficial/ideally civilised] viruses of the mind [as in a dawkinsian memetic sense].

    Certainly, but the problem arises when someone has a vested interest in their ideology but the ideology needs to be exclusive. For religious people, for example, their religion is what keeps them out of the bottomless pit of despair, chaos and nihilism but their belief depends on it being true and [for fundamentalists] exclusive - paving the path to uncivilized, petty, separative vile [if not violent] acts.

    :scratchin: What do you mean?

    Indeed. Just take India for an example. A human resource 1.2 billion strong is an immense strength. And yet, corruption, traditionalism, superstition, religious and regional differences all keep it from utilising it properly. The brain drain is just the least of India's problems - while the northern plains have someone of the poorest and overpopulated areas in the countries, some temples in the south make more money than many a small town. Just imagine what it could do if it gave up its religious or superstitious beliefs and worked on better science education.

    The reply got so long and so off topic I separated it into another thread - http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?134716-Existential-crisis-please-Help!&p=3070849#post3070849
    It is most likely right up your alley, so do look at it if you like.

    Ok, I'll look into it.

    Hm, I didnt know that. You never cease to amaze. How do you know so much?

    Well, considering what some other minorities got that wasnt so bad, for that time atleast. History might as well be called "101 reasons to hate your fellow man", though I doubt we would find just 101.

    Thanks. That's sorted then. Hey, wait a minute.... I said it would take two posts and it did. No, its NOT just a simple coincidence that can happen easily, I AM PSYCHIC!
    So now its even worse, since this isnt as plainly and demonstrably wrong - and some do end up thinking this way. And what's worst is that arguments work, shall we say, a bit inefficently with them:

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    :cheers:
    :thumbsup:

    Oh, and if you liked that, you might like this:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0ZqQznblZo
    Note: Its actually a commercial for scientology that has been edited to support Atheism and has more views than the original.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2013
  17. wellwisher Banned Banned

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    The term homophobia is a manipulation technique designed to silence opposition. I have nothing personally against anyone. Anyone who knows me personally knows I have always got along with everyone. I have had many gay and lesbian friends. What I fight against is the manipulation tactic that is being used to bias the truth into a lie.

    An analogous tactic, is if anyone says anything against President Obama, even with supporting data, is called racist. Homophobia works on the same template as the race card. The term was designed as an emotional strong arm tactic, that causes honest people to back off from bigots, who can't win the argument with logic and data. Instead of the race card, the homophobe card is played in this topic. I pushed it to see how many times the horse would go to the well.

    The feminists started this tactic in the 1980's, with the term male chauvinist pig. This was the original low information liberal voter, silence the rational opposition tactic. If you said this feminism will lead to an increase in child poverty, you were a male chauvinist pig. The low information voter, when they heard the term, would react like the Pavlov Dog, and nag and bully any opposition to the agenda.

    The PC movement has extrapolated this even further setting up other illusions.

    If this makes me a homophobes than all that means is you have truth-o-phobia.
     
  18. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    ...
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2013
  19. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    That's great. I am sure the Westboro Baptists say the same thing about soldiers.

    And how anyone who does not support the right wing is called a socialist. Yep, both of those are misuses of the term. Someone who objects to Obama on the basis of his policies is not a racist; someone who laments that there is a nigger in the White House is a racist.

    Nope. Disliking someone because you dislike their political position on something is not homophobia. Support of organized suppression of their rights IS homophobia.
     
  20. Balerion Banned Banned

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    Wellwisher is a troll. He's not responding to anyone's posts, he's just taking every opportunity to dehumanize homosexuals. I wish a moderator would put this to an end.
     
  21. Bells Staff Member

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    Oh I understand that you are a racist bigot and a homophobe, not to mention a theist.

    I guess your revulsion at two same sex consenting adults loving each other and having sex stems from your religious ideology. You are nothing more than the hateful ultra right Christians who advocate the killing of gays. Unfortunately, you are stupid enough to believe that you would get people onside by bring up the specter of paedophilia to divert attention away from your views.


    [HR][/HR]


    Do you even read the sites you link?

    Because linking to a Christian site which is clearly pulling stuff out of thin air to justify their own homophobia.. Their sources are other Christian homophobic sites, at least one of which is a 'pray away the gay' site. And you actually expect us to take you seriously?

    To give you an example. The first supposed statistic linked on the site you linked states this about homosexuals:

    So I went and had a look at 'exodusglobalalliance.org', and it is a pray away the gay site. First testimony I read:

    Then again, I should not be surprised when they claim this about themselves:


    You will excuse us if we ignore and frankly, laugh at, any supposed facts you provide about homosexuals, such as in the link you provided.


    You should be ashamed of yourself.

    [HR][/HR]


    I think shutting down homophobic people just gives them what they want. They want to feel justified and so, they push the boundaries and hope we shut down their threads, so that they can then turn around and say 'see, you're just a hypocrite since you are so bigoted towards us'..

    I am keeping a close watch on this thread, believe me. And if they step even marginally beyond making utter twats of themselves as they are now, then I will put an end to it.
     
  22. leopold Valued Senior Member

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    you don't understand me at all, not even close.
     
  23. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    And we never will as long as you continue to be circumspect.
     
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