Okay, so I just realized from a conversation with the owner of the company I work for, that he believes the success of this business is dependent on god. He believes satan is trying to make everyone at work lack joy (and it's easy work, so most of the people are generally easy going) because there are so many good things about to happen. Wow. On one hand, that freaks me out. I can't believe this business, which I have invested myself in greatly (I'm an important member of management) is being run well, basically on superstition. Then again though, faith as in "I hope things will get better soon" is a very human and reasonable means to fray potential paralysis from a doom and gloom attitude. Ack. So he really thinks satan is directly affecting the moralle of the employees. Thinking back, it's easy to see that he also thinks that about "getting business" in general. IMO, that is NO WAY TO RUN A BUSINESS. Wow... but I like the guy for the most part, and I love the company. Hrmph. That's confusing. I guess I like stuff that's confusing in that way, because it doesn't really matter... much ado about nothing I suppose.. that is until at some point nothing becomes something. Yeah well, I don't know I just wanted to see what you guys thought. Strange business... I guess I see it like "whatever mental sheild you have to use to be able to bear the weight of responsibility that a business brings upon you" until that makes you irrational, which excepting his assertion of Satan negatively impacting moralle, he is not. Oh, and except for the occasional link to a christian "proof" website that he sends me (which seems irrational to me, but I'm sure is perfectly rational to him). I guess I should consider as well, that by not thinking of "satan" or whatever I might miss larger trends in behavior. So perhaps regardless of the reality of "satan", thinking of things in terms of larger forces might allow one to more readily see larger patterns in behavior, so maybe his tendency to embrace retarded notions actually makes him a better business man, though some of the specifics of his assertion have to be translated to avoid creepiness. So I have no reason to complain I guess, besides that the whole superstitious assertion as "real" fucking creeps me out.
the only thing that seems scary to me is if he thinks satan is attacking his company he must believe his company is doing "god's work" (why else would satan bother him?). The history of most religions show those kinds of delusions of grandeur can justify almost any action. It's bad enough when the faith organizations do this but in buisness it's even more disturbing. When you think god endorses your product you get uncomfortably close to a 'manifest destiny' kind of outlook. "My product deserves to succeed because god's on my side!" or "My buisness is failing, damn you satan!", that can only end badly.
As long as you're still getting a paycheck, shout a few amens. Meanwhile, prep your resume and get ready to get the hell out of there. The last thing you need is for this guy to clean house at the managerial level because god told him to. (Okay. My boss is hyper-Christian, but he has this radical idea that our company is succeeding because we churn out quality products. Huh, go figure.)
Wes relax the business is not run soley or event predominatly on superstition or it probably would not make it year to year. The enviroment that any business exits within makes it very difficult for it to run on religion. Even churches, including catholic ones, are run primary as a business and than a religious institure 2nd. The nature of our economy makes it next to impossible for any business to use prayer and devine inspiration in lieu of market demand and customer interaction to thrive. Besides if he had to tell you that he did this.....and you didn't notice on your own ....God isn't on the board of directors. Actually what may creep you out more is the reality that unless you "own" a percentage of the business than trust me chances are good that you are not "an important memeber of management" Since I don't know what business you are in you can answer that question yourself by thinking back on how long it took to train you and make you from a new hire into a managerial asset. From my past experience the answer was always not very long and usually well under 2-3 months. This is espcially true if you are not a person who makes policy decisons for the business on a regular basis. So how do you generally answer his relgious questions when he asks you? I hope it doesn't creep you out to much as an athiest because more people are gnositc in this country and your chances of getting an athiestic boss are on the slim side.
there's a huge difference between a boss that's a believer (pick a faith) and one that believes satan is the cause of any problems the company faces.
it's weird... he's not irrational. he has managed to keep this business alive for over 20 years. hell man about a year ago we went through a HORRIBLE time like, almost out of business. no no, we SHOULD HAVE BEEN OUT OF BUSINESS, yet somehow they managed to keep the doors open and now business is really picking up. he doesn't mess with me too much about religious stuff. just once in a while. he bought me a book once "the case for christ". man i wanted to sit down and refute the whole thing line for line for him, to see if he would give the same consideration he expects me to give him. too much work though. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! oh and this other time, during that HORRIFYING slump in business, right at the end of it actually, he brought the remaining employees (about 7 down from over 140) into a group for a prayer. I didn't do it. I just sat there and watched them.. they didn't seem at all offended, but it was somewhat uncomfortable for me. regardless, normally I don't deal with him much. he's the owner. the vice-president is my boss. he's pretty christian too but never brings it up. our engineering manager is quite catholic, but the coolest guy to work with. really dig him. he NEVER ever brings it up though unless we're talking about stuff his family did, and he'd NEVER say "looks like the enemy is rallying his forces" or cryptic shit like that. however, the owner is in a wheelchair too, so I'm not so sure about if the god thing hasn't really helped him through his hardships. that's fine and stuff. actually it just creeped me out that he said that enemy thing today, but honestly I guess whatever, he's a good guy and has managed to keep us open and keep me employed through a very dark time. he fired his cousin (another manager) before me, so I feel semi-secure about the value I offer. further, I set company policy and can usually justify it, so I pretty much get my way. doesn't matter much when it's ignored, but regardless, I can directly effect the way the company is managed, so his assertions of god and satan are pretty much what he feels, but I can ensure the company is managed at least mostly the way I think it should be done. i just thought it was weird, and possibly food for an interesting discussion. i'm not totally sure about what to think of it, but that's what keeps life interesting I guess. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Wes I have a question. How big is this company? Do they know you are an athiest or believe you to just be non-relgious? Also, since it has a strong christian slant do you have any co-workers whom are buddist, Muslims, ect ect? I worked for the county for three years down here in Austin and they were very Christian too. So much so that they would have religious sermons right there in the office between co-workers. I am a unitarian and believe in God just not under the Christian paradign. If the choices were Christianty or athiesm I would be an athiest too. They knew I was gnostic but not Christian and offered (which was heart warming) for me to attend their churches and one of them said she wanted me to be saved by Christ one day. I would have to say overall the morality level was extremely high in that place of work and I did not feel uncomfortable but I am far from an athiest which makes mine an easier ride I am guessing than yours. As far as him using prayer ...if this is a personal business (which is what I am gathering) he probably has most of his non-liquid assets arranged into the business. If this is so a business slump that huge must have been tramatic on him. Prayer, wheather God heard it or not probably kept him from having a nervous breakdown at the time. That is cool that you have a hand in policy because that certainly is more job security. If the business is a sole propiership, partnership (slient partners included) or s corporation I hope he has insurance on the business and if he is active in the day-to-day operations an insurance called "key person" insurance would be a very good thing to have. I bring this up because it sounds like he is searcing for a safety net and insurance is that net......as opposed to prayer.
Two locations, about 70 employees right now and expanding soon. I'd guess the gross last year was under $1M, but averages maybe 2.5 before that? Something. I don't get to see much financial information. Well, it's come up. I haven't made a big deal of it, but it's pretty obvious when you abstain from prayers and such. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Well, I work closely with just a few people, one, the catholic in particular... but like I said, he's great. There are a coupld of other non-religious types but none so uhm, obviously athiest as myself. I don't make a point of it, but I don't go along with the crowd on the prayer/jesus bullshit either, whereas I think the others tend to either believe or go along for the show because they kind believe or something. I haven't asked. Great town! Only been there once for a week, but boy howdy, I dug austin. I'm in columbia MO myself, which is a very nice town too. it aint no austin though. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! I don't understand how people can promote the bible as uhm, more than a book of stories... but meh. Yeah man religious stuff creeps me out. Pardon. Man I get mildly offended by that kind of shit, but usually get over it pretty quick. I only find it annoying because IMO, it's like saying "you probably don't know anything right? so can I fill your head with my superstitious bullshit?" Ack. To be fair, I haven't been uhm.. I dunno, mistreated or anything. My value as percieved by the owner has been directly demonstrated, or I wouldn't be working here. Yes, privately owned corporation. Yeah, it was. Very well may have. I pretty much have free reign with it as long as I can justify it. I'm the ISO Management Representative, Quality Manager, IT Director, Training/Safety Director, Document Control Coordinator and other stuff. Yeah I think he does, but I wouldn't know for sure. That is in the genera of information to which I am not privy. Yeah actually it's just the way he thinks. It bothers me from a management perspective, because to me the foundation for managing a business must be rational. You can use common sense, data, creativity, policy and checks/balances... but GOD is irrelevant. I suppose if you're the religious type though and you're really really into it... GOD is never really irrelevant. That's disturbing to me, as my future is possibly wrapped up in this business. It doesn't matter I guess though, as my distaste for that aspect of his perspective is irrelevant to his authority. Well, that and it's a sure bet that GOD will never be involved in company policy, so I suppose there's nothing to complain about eh? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Hehe.
Interesting story. You paint quite a picture. A few more posts about your office enviroment and a couple more names it would almost be like I work there. Kinda of a description associated with creative writers. If you have never written a narrative before maybe you should take a jab at it. More description of office equip and inside of building and it would be quite a picture. There is an author i read ......along these lines. I loved his book. His name is Michael Shermer and he is head of the skeptics society (www.skeptics.com). An admitted agnostic he contents that the existance of God is insoluable (his wording not mine) meaning it cannot be proven or disproven. He wrote a book called "how we believe" and it is his theory on how indivduals have gnostic faith. He is a perfect individual to write this as he has an extensive background in religious studies and as an agnostic has no vested interest in the existance or non-existance of God. There are a few chapters where he talks about his real life debates with Christians but overall his opinion is impartial. His opinion is also educated making it kinda unique. go browse his website www.skeptics.com it will give you a flavor for his writings. Your postings on this thread made me think of that.....book was very moving for me.
Yeah I dig Shermer man. He's sharp. He writes in sciam every month. I've seen him on TV quite a few times as well. His debunking is sweeeeeeeet. Oh man have you seen "Penn and Teller's: Bullshit!"? It's fabulous. Shermer made an appearance there as well, I believe on the episode debunking the bible. Great stuff there. I'll check that site. I think I've meandered that way before, but not for a while so it sounds good. Thanks for the link. Thanks for your kind words. I think I generally suck at writing. I can string together a bunch of words but I'm all over the place. I wouldn't know the first thing to do to write a narrative, but I'm glad you liked the description.
I will have to check out sciam. Really, Shermer's book "How we believe" is really worth the read. Because he is agnostic he is in a very neutral place to write about the threory of belief which is what the book is about. I have seen penn and teller on tape a few times. They have these vhs videos from the late 80,s or early 90,s where they teach the tape owner to pull pranks with an interactive vhs tape and bet money on the outcome thus scaming the other viewers. Kinda sleazy but for most of them you would have to be pretty dense to fall for the tricks. G. Penn keeps one of his pinky nails long (untrimed) and paints it with fingernail paint. I think I have your story beat today. Today at work a co-worker of mine who is amazing perceptive tells me that another co-worker is bad news. Normally I blow the rumor mill off but this woman who told me this had made some amazing obeservations in the short employement here and I have learned to value her opinon. she does not tell me in front of another co-worker so I wait for the other co-worker to leave and ask her "what is up?". She tells me that this other woman is bad news that works with us. I say in what way? She does vodoo I think? Voodo? I ask? Yes. How do you know I ask? I can just feel it? It feels evil. So you have no evidence that she does voodo? She says no I can just feel it. I say do you believe in voodo? She says yes do you? I say no. She says why not? I say it has never been scientifically documented. It is real she tells me. Than she tells me some story where another voodoo practicner hurt her extended family long ago ....and how that made it real for her. Crazy thing is until today she has made more than a handful or very accurate predictoins and because of such co-workers are going to be very inclinded to buy into the voodoo story if she shares and if they are supersticious.
i would tell that asshole to shove his god shit up his ass. i would rather be unemployed than work for someone like that. i cant fucking stand religious people blah blah blah, "god is going to make me successful"...shut the hell up. y cant he work hard and make HIMSELF successful. thats what i hate about religion. "god will make everything all rite because he loves everyone". bullshit. take responsibility for yourself, grow up, stop living the childhood fantasy that is religion.
While on a certain level I feel similarly about religion, I happen to care greatly about some people are are pretty religious. Everyone has faults from everyone else's perspective. I think it's important not to blow those faults out of proportion to the rest of the person's personality. If I like someone, I can overlook things I don't like and handle any problems regarding my distaste for their perspective as they arise.
Thankyou mate someone who actually realises that there is not god almighty and what you get and the luck you create for yourself is not brought on by some miraculous being. Religious people always have a way of turning things around to say that there was some divine intervention helping them to do certain things but it is actually either modern medicine or them actually getting off there fat arse and actually acheiving something by themselves and not the work of some idiot alot of these pillocks call almighty. Thanks again Aborted Fetus a breath of fresh air to hear'
Really? You seriously would prefer to be unemployed, in this tough job market? I got the impression that people who actually have jobs, whether under a religious maniac or not, should count themselves lucky and try to keep that job. Someone correct if I'm wrong. Is the job market so lenient that you can just afford to go unemployed just because you don't like your employer?
And you will even get money if you never worked. And if you are lucky enough to live in certain countries the city will pay for things such as fridges and washing machines if you are on the minimal side of the wellfare system. Just don't demand to have a house of your won or a brandnew car. But you can easily live without a job.
