Hitler, The Spear of Destiny, and the Jews.

Discussion in 'History' started by The Gaour, Aug 17, 2005.

  1. The Gaour Registered Member

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    Something else i've been pondering. I know there's previously been a different thread regarding Hitler, but stay with me.


    I'm sure most of you are aware of what the spear of destiny, or the holy lance is/was. (if not - http://ourworld.cs.com/argentprime/spear.htm and further reading - http://web.org.uk/picasso/spear.html ) . Also, i'm sure most of you have seen it referred to in Constantine.

    The holder of the spear was said to be able to conquer the world, and upon leaving the holders possesion that person would soon die. I've read of previous kings and emperors, etc that have won battles and then lost them upon losing the spear, and then soon afterwards dying.

    The spear, of course, was that which apparently struck the christian messiah, "Jesus" whilst he was upon the crucifix.

    Now that that's all out of the way, here's what i've been thinking about.
    We all know that Hitler was said to have committed suicide (the same day that the spear of destiny fell from his possesion, taken by an american army regiment), and we all know of the Jewish persecution in WW2.

    Now, Jesus was considered a Jew. The christian bible indicates that he was a jew, eg the scarlet robe and the announcement of him being the "king of the jews".

    Anyway.... Do you think that Hitlers main concentration on exterminating the Jews could have been some sort of hidden agenda, for persecuting Jesus himself?

    This of course would have to take into account that the spear of destiny and all of it's myths were true, and that hitler didn't kill himself by his own free will, but that of the destiny of losing possesion of the spear.

    I hope you're all still with me :D
     
  2. Hapsburg Hellenistic polytheist Valued Senior Member

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    Huh. I thought hitler was raised as a Catholic...his father was catholic, his mother was catholic, he went to a catholic school...he grew up in a mostly-catholic area...I asssumed he was a catholic...so, why would be have a personal vendetta against jesus...the core of catholicism?
     
  3. The Gaour Registered Member

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    you make a good point. unfortunately i havn't done much research about hitler's upbringing, and this is just something i've been thinking about. thanks for the enlightenment.

    ps: before someone says it, i know that jews arn't a race (also, i read somewhere that according to judaism if you're born of a jewish mother this automatically makes you jewish). also i don't think hitler would think much about the intricacies of being jewish either.
     
  4. outlandish smoki'n....... Registered Senior Member

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  5. Xev Registered Senior Member

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    If I had a penis I would most definitely refer to it as the "spear of destiny"

    "Anyway.... Do you think that Hitlers main concentration on exterminating the Jews could have been some sort of hidden agenda, for persecuting Jesus himself?"

    Hitler was a Christian.

    ""I am convinced that I am acting as the agent of our Creator. By fighting off the Jews. I am doing the Lord's work."

    That being said, Hitler did privately advocate - and had some plans for - re-establishing the native German religion.

    I think this may be the last word:

    [​IMG]

    (By the way, I would live on Ramen for a month if I could find a belt buckle like this)
     
  6. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    Xev, if you lived in Texas, you could have it made relatively cheaply! Certainly a lot less problem than eating Ramen noodles for a month. :)

    Baron Max
     
  7. Xev Registered Senior Member

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    Baron Max, if I lived in Texas I could have a lot of wonderful things.
    Namely firearms, solitude and desert sunsets.
     
  8. Hapsburg Hellenistic polytheist Valued Senior Member

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    Man, I'd live on Ramen noodles for year just because ramen noodles are awesome. If I could save money in the process, and buy cool militaria, all the better....
     
  9. The Gaour Registered Member

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    outlandish, i know about zionism, and i'm aware that the jews arn't a race. i was merely referring to jesus in the x-ian bible being referred to as a jew.
    also, as a footnote, according to the Torah you can be born a jew if your mother was jewish.
     
  10. River Ape Valued Senior Member

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    You should seriously consider the possibility that Jesus was not Jewish -- unless, of course, you consider that his father, God, was Jewish. The Bible does not teach that Mary was the biological mother of Jesus -- contributing half of his genes. Jesus was the "son" element of the Holy Trinity, and thus 100% God (not 50%).
     
  11. Hapsburg Hellenistic polytheist Valued Senior Member

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    Jesus, if he existed, is said to have practised the jewish religon. That'd make him jewish IMHO.
     
  12. River Ape Valued Senior Member

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    You don't think he was a Christian, then?
    In regard to Judaism, do you not recall his repeated turn of phrase, "Ye have heard it say . . . but I say unto you . . . " ?
    Consult Matthew 5.
     
  13. Hapsburg Hellenistic polytheist Valued Senior Member

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    Christians were jews. Early christianity was just a sect of Judaism. I still consider christianity to be just a large sect of Judaism.

    Oh, and how the fuck do you expect me to consult a bible for quotes, when I do not have, nor even have had, nor ever will have, a bible?
     
  14. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    You should read the Bible, Hap, it's actually quite interesting and, somewhat, informative and educational. You don't have to believe the crap, but you don't believe the stuff you read in modern fiction novels, do you? ;=)

    Baron Max
     
  15. Prince_James Plutarch (Mickey's Dog) Registered Senior Member

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    The notion that Hitler's attacks on the Jews translates to attacks against Jesus is ridiculous. Jesus may have been ethnically/racially and religiously a Jew, his doctrines and beliefs also clashed with Judaism in a massive manner. You know, the whole "I am the son of God" thing.
     
  16. Hapsburg Hellenistic polytheist Valued Senior Member

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    Fuck. No. I. Shouldn't.
    Lies and fantasy are not educational.
    Good, 'cause I don't.
    Good point. Still, though, I reading up that fucking book.
     
  17. River Ape Valued Senior Member

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    It's on the web, old bean! (Many times over!)
     
  18. outlandish smoki'n....... Registered Senior Member

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    In terms of inherent philosophy of the two then no. The basic principle are common to the 3 faiths.
    Jesus clashed with the jewish heirachy and priests at the time, but this was becuase they were corrupt.

    Jesus never directly stated or even alluded to the fact that he was ever the "son of God". This whole notion started with the gospels (or some such, my biblical knowledge is sketchy) and paul or whatever his name was, but there's no use arguing with the Baptists, since they will always pull the "holy trinity" shit on you. :rolleyes:
     
  19. outlandish smoki'n....... Registered Senior Member

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    Why view them as seperate and differing entities? I'm guessing you're a baptist right? (which would explain a lot)

    I think to get a more overal perspective in how the the inherent philosophy of the 3 faiths aren't separate entities, but rather constituants of a more wider and whole basic philosophy it's ineresting to read thr Quran.
    I've heard (although my knowledge on this too is sketchy) that the prophet Isa (jesus) is mentioned in the Quran more than the prophet Mohammed.

    And most certainly We gave Musa the Book and We sent apostles after him one after another; and We gave Isa, the son of Marium, clear arguments and strengthened him with the holy spirit, What! whenever then an apostle came to you with that which your souls did not desire, you were insolent so you called some liars and some you slew.
    (2.87)

    Say: We believe in Allah and what has been revealed to us, and what was revealed to Ibrahim and Ismail and Ishaq and Yaqoub and the tribes, and what was given to Musa and Isa and to the prophets from their Lord; we do not make any distinction between any of them, and to Him do we submit.
    (3.84)

    O followers of the Book! do not exceed the limits in your religion, and do not speak (lies) against Allah, but (speak) the truth; the Messiah, Isa son of Marium is only an apostle of Allah and His Word which He communicated to Marium and a spirit from Him; believe therefore in Allah and His apostles, and say not, Three. Desist, it is better for you; Allah is only one God; far be It from His glory that He should have a son, whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His, and Allah is sufficient for a Protector.
    (4.171)

    http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/k/koran/koran-idx?type=simple&q1=isa&size=First 100
     
  20. River Ape Valued Senior Member

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    I am not a Christian, but from a Christian perspective (I would have thought almost any Christian perspective) I do not consider that Jesus can be considered a Jew. The concept of the Trinity is central to Christianity -- and that concept makes it difficult to consider Jesus as being any more Jewish than God or the Holy Spirit. Merely, in his incarnate form, he dwelt among the Jews. As I have already stated, Mary was not (in the ordinary sense) the biological mother of Jesus. Such a notion would imply a (sexual) act of fertilisation by God.

    From a Muslim perspective, I agree that Jesus was Jewish -- but this is not relevant to a discussion of Hitler.
     

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