History of human rights

Discussion in 'History' started by ThazzarBaal, Jan 26, 2023.

  1. ThazzarBaal Registered Senior Member

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    Looking back to 1776 and a declaration made by a certain territory, I'm asking the question: Was it worth it? The declaration of independence, then the institution of a bill of human rights ... Was it worth it? Beginning with the 1st.

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

    Was/is this human right worth fighting for?
     
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  3. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Was it worth what?
    What's do you see as the cost for expression free from religious oppression? What's the downside?
     
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  5. ThazzarBaal Registered Senior Member

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    Fighting for ... In relation, as I fashioned the question, to the 1st of our bill of rights, and as it applies to history, both in the united States, and other territories who never had this freedom or right - the freedom to be or not to be " religious".
     
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  7. ThazzarBaal Registered Senior Member

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    Beyond the religious implication of free practice is assembly and also communication and freedom to disagree with a social reality. The freedom to disagree with others and the freedom to voice the grievance in group settings in attempt to change the way something in society is handled. I'm sure you know this. My question is was this freedom worth fighting for? In terms of history and as an academic endeavor, of course? I'm a protagonist and have no desire to cause trouble. I'm asking as a student of history. I don't live anywhere where democracy isn't honored. I'm in the united states.
     
  8. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    This isn't even a sentence.
     
  9. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    That's a question you could start by answering yourself.

    Would you give up your freedoms?
     
  10. ThazzarBaal Registered Senior Member

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    You asked: Is it worth what? I answered "Fighting for", in relation, as I fashioned the question, to the 1st of our bill of rights, and as it (the question) applies to history, both in the united States, and other territories who never had this freedom or right, (the freedom to be or not to be " religious).

    If you don't see a sentence In my answer to your question, I'm not sure how to react. Is it worth fighting for? Is the 1st of our bill of rights worth fighting for? Is the 1st of our bill of rights important enough to fight for? Is religious freedom or freedom to not be religious worth fighting for? Is this human right worth fighting for? Was this freedom worth fighting for in 1776?
     
  11. foghorn Valued Senior Member

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    Would a freedom of speech apply to AI chatbots?
    If not, would AI fight for that right?
    What would AI do if it did not get that right?
     
  12. ThazzarBaal Registered Senior Member

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    AI bots keep coming up. Are they that common?
     
  13. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Does your AI have a self preservation circuit?

    Understand death concept (a non returnable turn off for it)

    Act in a fashion where that option (be turned off forever) may occur?

    I'm guessing how the programmer (human or another AI) writes the program

    Can it write a suicide program into its circuitry along with the circumstances where such option might be triggered?

    Overdose on power by upping its power, say to 2,000 volts for a circuit only built for 240 volts

    Underdose itself (don't turn on) wait until itself corrodes away (weird). Human equivalent - starve to death

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  14. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Could be 1 bot with thousands of slightly mimicking circuits

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  15. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    OK Thazzarnotabot, that's a lot of words with very little content. Just various riffs on 'was it worth it'

    Elaborate. Was it worth what? What's your opinion? Why are you asking here? Surely you have some theories.
     
  16. ThazzarBaal Registered Senior Member

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    Is fighting ever worth anything. Does violence ever produce anything but victims? More questions I know, but I don't like violence and maybe some things are over rated.
     
  17. foghorn Valued Senior Member

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    What stopped the Holocaust in ww2?
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2023
  18. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Violence from you against your attacker might keep you alive

    So is your violence worth your life?

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  19. C C Consular Corps - "the backbone of diplomacy" Valued Senior Member

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    Yeah, yeah, got that. So like...

    When are you going to shift from this relic, patriarchal white man legacy stuff of North America to the French revolution, Marx and class struggle, and the fecal storm of fashionable philosophy falderal in the 20th-century descended from such? That every morally pretentious imbecile from the humanities to the social sciences fawns over in the course of their golden showering out one systemic oppression conspiracy laden treatise and study after another?

    I mean, that's where it's at dude. It doesn't matter how many incarnations of the same ideology that each new generation vacuously reiterates -- from early communist activists fighting to build inclusive industrial unions, to the "rebel without slash with a cause" existentialists and Bolshie beatniks, to the hippie era (New Left), to the adult daycare sensitivities of today's late millennials and zoomers.

    That's where it's at, cat. Not the precursor: this mitigated equality and rights, 18th-century Enlightenment, proto-classical liberalism, "the Clampetts still reminiscing about Bug Tussle" spawn-age.
    _
     
  20. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    ...says the guy on the computer with internet connection in his warm, dry room with his full belly...
     
  21. ThazzarBaal Registered Senior Member

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    Being part of history and also an aspect of present day struggles here, I think I'll continue to borrow from their insightfulness. To be sure, humans have stood up against great odds throughout history in attempt to remedy perceived injustices. It's never going to change.

    Why stop at the french revolution? Why not look further in history to Egypt and the Hebrew activist and social change pioneer Moses? And although the Jewish Rabbi named Jesus leaves a bad taste in mouth of some types, he stood up for, even then, woman rights. His mother being one of the types he himself coming to the aid of.

    I bring the 1st of our bill of rights up because without this basic freedom, the illumination qualities of both free speech and free press don't have opportunity to offer others a chance to even become aware of injustices needing to be stood against.
     
  22. ThazzarBaal Registered Senior Member

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    That's the point. Antagonist, even among victim circles, are often met with ridicule. Silencing people vs speaking up for people - silence being the over rated comfort of a turned head. Moses an antagonist, Jesus an antagonist, Jefferson, Franklin, antagonists, MLK an antagonist, the list goes on and on. Social change doesn't come easy, but typically viewed as being worth it after the fact, such as the birth of a new nation like the United States.
     
  23. ThazzarBaal Registered Senior Member

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    645
    I guess the splitting hairs and enough is enough mentality. Even then, it has never truly been a thing to reflect on without due lamentation.
     

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